Replacing just the UST in a F1 Analog system

[se7ent7]

I suspect the Sonicore undersaddle transducer in my Martin OMCPA4 is not the best UST, and I want to replace it with a Matrix Infinity or Baggs Eelement

Is that a bad idea, since the pre-amp is obviously designed to get the best out of the Sonicore? Are there impedance/output voltage issues to be aware of with this kind of thing ? (this is not my best area)

[Hinto]

I'd like to know if anyone was at least able to swap an Infinity Matrix for the Sonicore? That would at least be an improvement.

[se7ent7]

I got a curt, albeit proper response from Fishman, saying the Matrix infinity would work with the F1 pre-amp.

[jonfields45]

I am pretty sure the Sonicore and the Element are both made from the coax piezo wires whose primary usage is in traffic lights where they are embedded in asphalt and used to detect the passing of cars. I imagine they are not all alike, but they are likely similar and generally don't require equalization to get to a decent sound. The Matrix is a sandwich of metals and polymer and according to MiSi needs a specific equalization curve which is built into the matching Fishman preamps. Replacing a Sonicore UST with an Element UST would certainly be an interesting experiment which I think has a chance of working and would be interesting to hear about the results... Jon

[Groberts]

I am interested in the answer if anyone tries the Baggs Element with the F1 analog preamp.

[MattMaximum]

Did you swap the UST element yet? I am thinking about doing just the same, though I'm not sure how much "sonic improvement" one could gain - it is still a UST. I emailed Fishman for the F1 Analog preamp's input impedance to inquire whether I could use a soundboard transducer instead (reply pending).


An article by L. Fishman:
http://www.premierguitar.com/article...e-wordplastics

Excerpt: "It’s my opinion that pickups with a braided-wire shield tend to dampen the acoustic response of an instrument and have a less-detailed sound due to the presence of the braided shield that’s pliable and soft. The upside here is that they are somewhat more forgiving with respect to installation, and have a more pronounced bass response because the soft materials can benefit bass-deficient instruments."


On several sites/forums, I found the following - forgive me for not mentioning the urls/sources:

[citation on]
- Here's what Fishman tech support has to say about it:
That UST is called the Sonicore and it is only sold to our manufacturers. It is not sold in a consumer format. Electronically, it is compatible with the Matrix under saddle and you could replace the Sonicore with a Matrix if it is broken, often with sonically superior results.

- Martin: In the case of the Acoustic Matrix, the name Gold Plus is used. The Martin Gold Plus is the Acoustic Matrix Natural 1, narrow format 3/32, and the Martin Gold Plus Max is the Acoustic Matrix Natural 2, narrow format 3/32. No tricks, no gimmicks, just the same quality components with different names. The Fishman version also offers the option of a wide format, 1/8 pickup for wider saddle slots. Hope this clears up any remaining questions about this issue.

- I remember enlarging and angling the hole in the bridge when I installed a Sonicore in one of my Martins. The Sonicore, which is a thick-ish copper braided cable, doesn't easily bend at a right-angle as it comes out of the bridge's guide hole to lay completely flat against the bottom of the bridge slot under the saddle. After enlarging and angling the hole, the pickup didn't have to bend so much and laid flat, and the sound quality improved noticeably.
[citation off]

[andyp4]

Originally Posted by MattMaximum

Did you swap the UST element yet? I am thinking about doing just the same, though I'm not sure how much "sonic improvement" one could gain - it is still a UST. I emailed Fishman for the F1 Analog preamp's input impedance to inquire whether I could use a soundboard transducer instead (reply pending).


An article by L. Fishman:
http://www.premierguitar.com/article...e-wordplastics

Excerpt: "It’s my opinion that pickups with a braided-wire shield tend to dampen the acoustic response of an instrument and have a less-detailed sound due to the presence of the braided shield that’s pliable and soft. The upside here is that they are somewhat more forgiving with respect to installation, and have a more pronounced bass response because the soft materials can benefit bass-deficient instruments."


On several sites/forums, I found the following - forgive me for not mentioning the urls/sources:

[citation on]
- Here's what Fishman tech support has to say about it:
That UST is called the Sonicore and it is only sold to our manufacturers. It is not sold in a consumer format. Electronically, it is compatible with the Matrix under saddle and you could replace the Sonicore with a Matrix if it is broken, often with sonically superior results.

- Martin: In the case of the Acoustic Matrix, the name Gold Plus is used. The Martin Gold Plus is the Acoustic Matrix Natural 1, narrow format 3/32, and the Martin Gold Plus Max is the Acoustic Matrix Natural 2, narrow format 3/32. No tricks, no gimmicks, just the same quality components with different names. The Fishman version also offers the option of a wide format, 1/8 pickup for wider saddle slots. Hope this clears up any remaining questions about this issue.

- I remember enlarging and angling the hole in the bridge when I installed a Sonicore in one of my Martins. The Sonicore, which is a thick-ish copper braided cable, doesn't easily bend at a right-angle as it comes out of the bridge's guide hole to lay completely flat against the bottom of the bridge slot under the saddle. After enlarging and angling the hole, the pickup didn't have to bend so much and laid flat, and the sound quality improved noticeably.
[citation off]

Any reply about using the soundboard transducer into the f1 analog preamp?

I am also interested in doing this.
It would be nice to use the volume & tone controls, and the tuner, and have a Lo-Z output but with the sound of soundboard transducers.

[guitaniac]

If Fishman says that you can swap the Matrix for the Sonicore, it will work. One word of caution (from someone who's swapped out a great many pickups) is that replacing the factory-installed pickup and/or electronics tends to harm resale value.

Before you swap pickups, be sure to check and see if the saddle slot floor is routed with a groove. Routing out a contour-hugging groove is a method of optimizing the effectiveness of a coaxial pickup, but many manufacturers don't bother with it. They just lay the coaxial pickup on a flat saddle slot floor.