251 mic shootout

[jim1960]

Vintage King did a 251 shootout featuring the following microphones:
Telefunken ELA-M 251E $11K
Heiserman Audio H251 $5700
Upton Microphones 251 $4500
FLEA Microphones ELA M 251 $5800
Telefunken ELA M 251 (2000s) no price available
Universal Audio Bock 251 $6K
Warm Audio WA-251 $850
Golden Age GA-251 MKII $2K

I should start by saying I'm not the biggest fan of the 251 style mic. I find them useful for a few particular things, which is why I picked up a Tele AR51 a while back, but it's not a mic I'd reach for often. Compared to the mics I prefer for the usual tasks, 251 mics usually sound a little thin to me. But there are people who love them and I'm not saying anyone shouldn't.

So briefly, here's what I heard...
The Upton and the Flea sound fantastic. Compared to those two, I think all the others sound thin ...which is what I'd expect from a 251 so the Upton and Flea were nice surprises. But I'm not sure if Upton and Flea made great 251 clones here as opposed to a couple of great mics.

The early 2000’s 251 has a vastly different sound from the other mics. On the right singer …someone whispery and breathy… I think that would be a great choice but the sound of that mic makes it very much a niche mic.

I don’t love any of those mics on acoustic guitar or on the amp. For drums, I suspect a 251 mic can likely work well on various cymbals and as overheads but I have no real idea since I've never recorded drums and I have no burning desire to record drums. Some of you that have done so, I'd be curious as to your thoughts on that.

[KevWind]

I have not tried drums (don't have a kit ) or percussion , or amped electric with my ADK 251

It would have been nice to have it included in the shootout but apparently VK does not sell them

On my acoustics I prefer my ribbons but have used the 251 as a middle mic and also no doubt get some bleed when I record vocal and acoustic all at once

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by KevWind

I have not tried drums (don't have a kit ) or percussion , or amped electric with my ADK 251

It would have been nice to have it included in the shootout but apparently VK does not sell them

You don't see many 251 shootouts but there's a lot of buzz from the new ones that have hit the market recently.

[KevWind]

If I remember the history correctly I believe it ( ELA M 250/251)came out as sort of a replacement for the Telefunken U47 when Neumann discontinued making the U47 for Telefunken, and AKG actually made it for Telefunken

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by KevWind

If I remember the history correctly I believe it ( ELA M 250/251)came out as sort of a replacement for the Telefunken U47 when Neumann discontinued making the U47 for Telefunken, and AKG actually made it for Telefunken

That sounds about right. Neumann decided to start badging the U47 with their own brand, so Telefunken came out with the 250/251. I guess it filled a hole in the number of offerings from Tele but calling it a "replacement" could be interpreted by some to mean the mics have a similar vibe and, at least to my ears, they're quite dissimilar.

For me, my voice leans a little thin so I need a mic with a little heft. But I do like the idea of a thinner mic for background vocals. The top end shimmer of a 251 can be great for that.

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by KevWind

If I remember the history correctly I believe it ( ELA M 250/251)came out as sort of a replacement for the Telefunken U47 when Neumann discontinued making the U47 for Telefunken, and AKG actually made it for Telefunken

Yes. When Neumann was able to secure their own distribution they stopped selling U47s to Telefunken for them to brand & sell. So Telefunken approached AKG for a U47 type mic, which became the ELA M 251.

The Telefunken branded U47s are special though. They have the M7 capsule, instead of the later k47 capsule.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

The Telefunken branded U47s are special though. They have the M7 capsule, instead of the later k47 capsule.

My Flea has their M7 replica capsule called a F7. They have an option with a K47 replica capsule that they call an F47. I've heard the F47. The K7 sounds so much better.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by jim1960

That sounds about right. Neumann decided to start badging the U47 with their own brand, so Telefunken came out with the 250/251. I guess it filled a hole in the number of offerings from Tele but calling it a "replacement" could be interpreted by some to mean the mics have a similar vibe and, at least to my ears, they're quite dissimilar.

For me, my voice leans a little thin so I need a mic with a little heft. But I do like the idea of a thinner mic for background vocals. The top end shimmer of a 251 can be great for that.

You are correct replacement is a bit ambiguous I meant it as in (alternative tube mic sales item) not as in (just like) Because as you note the response is quite different . I believe that AKG based it on the C- 12 but made some changes in config. so it is also a different response from even the C -12

However, understanding it's all subjective , what you call "thin" I would call "less dark colored " and a bit more open, airy, and detailed in the upper mid's and high end

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by KevWind

You are correct replacement is a bit ambiguous I meant it as in (alternative tube mic sales item) not as in (just like) Because as you note the response is quite different . I believe that AKG based it on the C- 12 but made some changes in config. so it is also a different response from even the C -12

Yes. The 251 and C12 use the same cartridge, and it's apparently one of the most difficult to make which is why the best replications of the original are expensive.

Tim Campbell's CT12 is considered one of the best C12 capsule replicas being made today. I've been trying to buy one for nearly a year but he's been so busy making capsules for the new Flea 251 (he makes all the capsules for that model) that he's currently not taking any outside orders. So I have to wait until the Flea 251 orders slow down before I can get my hands on a Campbell CT12.

My intention is to put the CT12 in my Telefunken AR51 which has a cheap Chinese replication of the C12 capsule. I'm pretty sure the capsule is the weakest link in that microphone. It might also need a better tube in the end but I really want to upgrade the capsule before I do anything with the tube because I suspect the tube isn't that bad.

Originally Posted by KevWind

However, understanding it's all subjective , what you call "thin" I would call "less dark colored " and a bit more open, airy, and detailed in the upper mid's and high end

True. Also, to some, "thin" might imply a 251 is harsh in the upper frequencies like a lot of the cheaper mics made today. I wasn't implying that either. We need a better word because I'm not typing out, "less dark colored and a bit more open, airy, and detailed in the upper mid's and high end," every time. I didn't intend "thin" as a pejorative but I see how it could be taken that way.

[DupleMeter]

Interesting shootout. The Heiserman was my favorite all around.

The inclusion of the UA/Bock was a little odd, because David Bock drew inspiration from the 251 for it, but then deliberately voiced it the way he felt it *should* sound, not the way the original sounds. So, it isn't meant to be a 251 clone, but a modern take on the 251 sound. That said, I liked the Bock, but I don't think it could be called a true 251 clone. It had it's own sound.