The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 06-22-2017, 08:55 PM
CoryKeW CoryKeW is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 76
Default Gibson L-00 vintage vs Nick Lucas vs SCGC H-13 ?

Hi,

I'm going to buy a small body guitar for fingerstyle. Now I've narrowed my choices to the listed three: a new 2017 L-00 vintage, used Nick Lucas from luthiers (i.e. Greven, Kevin Kopp, etc.) and scgc H-13.

Could anyone has experiments with those instruments above give me any suggestions on which on do you prefer? And why? (considering tones, collective values, etc.)

Further more, I also need suggestions on wood selection. I've noticed that H-13 and nick lucas models have different B/S choices (IRW, mahogany, and maple). Which one has clearer mid and tremble? Which one has more sustain? Which one is better for fingerstyle?

Thank you very much.

Best,
Cory
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-22-2017, 10:02 PM
dannyg1 dannyg1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,387
Default

I'll suggest that you pay attention to the scale length, the Gibson will most likely be 24.9, the Santa H13 25.38 and the others onevway or another. I personally require the longer scale because I tune down and short scale instruments sound rubbery when you do that. Longer scales also have a tendency to ring out more because of the extra string tension so aren't always in the same tonal personality as your typical vintage Gibson L-00.

If that's the sound that drew you to the body style in the first place, look for 24.9" scale builds.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-22-2017, 10:51 PM
Tone Monster Tone Monster is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 840
Default

Greven's LOOv and Cruz's H13 are great, also check Kevin Kopp, stay away from Gibson!
__________________
Rick Schmidlin

Don't Think Twice It's Alright
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-22-2017, 11:30 PM
CoryKeW CoryKeW is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 76
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tone Monster View Post
Greven's LOOv and Cruz's H13 are great, also check Kevin Kopp, stay away from Gibson!


Why not Gibson?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
WTB Somogyi Mod-D, Greven, and Greenfield G5. PM Please. Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-22-2017, 11:32 PM
CoryKeW CoryKeW is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 76
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyg1 View Post
I'll suggest that you pay attention to the scale length, the Gibson will most likely be 24.9, the Santa H13 25.38 and the others onevway or another. I personally require the longer scale because I tune down and short scale instruments sound rubbery when you do that. Longer scales also have a tendency to ring out more because of the extra string tension so aren't always in the same tonal personality as your typical vintage Gibson L-00.



If that's the sound that drew you to the body style in the first place, look for 24.9" scale builds.


I play DADGAD most of the time. Thank you for the advice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
WTB Somogyi Mod-D, Greven, and Greenfield G5. PM Please. Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-23-2017, 01:53 AM
Tone Monster Tone Monster is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 840
Default

[QUOTE=CoryKeW;5384055]Why not Gibson?]

If not a vintage Gibson I don't see the point, Cruz, Greven and Kopp are the real experts!
__________________
Rick Schmidlin

Don't Think Twice It's Alright
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-23-2017, 07:53 AM
devellis's Avatar
devellis devellis is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,399
Default

[QUOTE=Tone Monster;5384087]
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoryKeW View Post
Why not Gibson?]

If not a vintage Gibson I don't see the point, Cruz, Greven and Kopp are the real experts!

I'd add Fairbanks to that list.
__________________
Bob DeVellis
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-23-2017, 11:08 AM
Flemish guy Flemish guy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 14
Default

Another thing you might want to look at is the string spacing at the bridge.
I have a Santa Cruz 00, a mighty fine guitar but the spacing of the strings (not the nut but the bridge) is too narrow for me to comfortably play fingerpicking. The H-13 has the same spacing according the SC website.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-23-2017, 11:22 AM
Jeff56 Jeff56 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 613
Default

I've owned the SC H-13, currently own the Kopp NL and have owned a Greven NL. All very good guitars but for me I prefer the Kopp. Gibsons can be very inconsistent so be aware of that. If neck profiles make a difference to you the Kopp NL is a full C shape, the SC H-13 is a low profile mod V. I prefer a full C neck. Tone wise I think Kopp will sound most like a vintage Gibson with Greven a close second. I you like a deep thumping bass, you can't beat a Kopp. I own 2 Kopps and a third will probably be in my future.
__________________
“You’re never too old to become the person you might have been.”-John Lennon

Martin 000-18GE, Rainsong CH-OM, Rainsong Vintage OM
Kopp NL, Kinscherff Concert,
Journey OF660
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-23-2017, 11:52 AM
Mr Fingers Mr Fingers is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 1,007
Default

Sadly, modern Gibson 00s, like virtually everything Gibson makes outside of custom shop $$$$$ models, is too inconsistent to bother with. Vintage 00 Gibson (which I own) is generally better, and the best ones are my favorite guitars, but overall can still be very inconsistent and there are many "Warm" "bluesy" (= dull, compressed, unversatile) Gibsons around to make it unsafe to buy without playing carefully. Great advice on scale length. I personally love, love, love 24.75 (Gibson) but the rest of the guitar needs to be right to make it work or you just end up with a soft-spoken, retiring tone. Again, old Gibsons sometimes get this exactly right, but it's almost an exception rather than the rule. For the other makers, all make terrific instruments so it's knowing how you intend to use it, and then trying actual instruments (because some of these makers' pieces vary more than you might think) that will decide things for you. I think the expressive feel of 24.75 is just the bomb, but unless the guitar is built right, it won't speak, in which case the tauter 25-plus scale is more reliably outspoken, though it has a stiffer feel. Good luck! The guitars you are considering are generally wonderful, and finding the one that matches your ear and hands would be a great thing. My '36 00 Gibson feels and sounds like it was made for me.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-24-2017, 02:00 PM
CoryKeW CoryKeW is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 76
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Fingers View Post
Sadly, modern Gibson 00s, like virtually everything Gibson makes outside of custom shop $$$$$ models, is too inconsistent to bother with. Vintage 00 Gibson (which I own) is generally better, and the best ones are my favorite guitars, but overall can still be very inconsistent and there are many "Warm" "bluesy" (= dull, compressed, unversatile) Gibsons around to make it unsafe to buy without playing carefully. Great advice on scale length. I personally love, love, love 24.75 (Gibson) but the rest of the guitar needs to be right to make it work or you just end up with a soft-spoken, retiring tone. Again, old Gibsons sometimes get this exactly right, but it's almost an exception rather than the rule. For the other makers, all make terrific instruments so it's knowing how you intend to use it, and then trying actual instruments (because some of these makers' pieces vary more than you might think) that will decide things for you. I think the expressive feel of 24.75 is just the bomb, but unless the guitar is built right, it won't speak, in which case the tauter 25-plus scale is more reliably outspoken, though it has a stiffer feel. Good luck! The guitars you are considering are generally wonderful, and finding the one that matches your ear and hands would be a great thing. My '36 00 Gibson feels and sounds like it was made for me.


Thank you very for sharing this with me. Are those 30's Gibson on reverb.com good options?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
WTB Somogyi Mod-D, Greven, and Greenfield G5. PM Please. Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-25-2017, 01:09 AM
blindboyjimi's Avatar
blindboyjimi blindboyjimi is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,374
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoryKeW View Post
?..I've narrowed my choices to the listed three: a new 2017 L-00 vintage, used Nick Lucas from luthiers (i.e. Greven, Kevin Kopp, etc.) and scgc H-13.

Could anyone has experiments with those instruments above give me any suggestions on which on do you prefer? And why? (considering tones, collective values, etc.)

Further more, I also need suggestions on wood selection. I've noticed that H-13 and nick lucas models have different B/S choices (IRW, mahogany, and maple). Which one has clearer mid and tremble? Which one has more sustain? Which one is better for fingerstyle?

Thank you very much.

Best,
Cory
Cory,
I've had them all: Santa Cruz, Greven, Kopp, Flammang, current Gibsons, vintage Gibsons, vintage Kalamazoos, in deep body, X-braced, ladder braced, 12, 13, or 14 fret, in Maple, Mahogany, Rosewood, Mahogany topped and Spruce topped and from 24.75"-25.4" scale.

What is it that you are looking for? What do you play, what type neck and feel do you like? The range of $1500-5000 will get you a straightforward Gibson to a custom hand made Fairbanks, or an 85 year old original in beautiful condition. I'm a fan of all of them and hold no prejudice. If you gave me $5,000 (or whatever your budget is) to spend for you, I'd ask you the exact questions above.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-25-2017, 01:27 AM
Looburst Looburst is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,678
Default

To me, Santa Cruz offers the absolute best balance in Mahogany for that rich deep tone.1929- 000, you can't go wrong with one of theirs.
__________________
Dump The Bucket On It!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-25-2017, 07:46 AM
CoryKeW CoryKeW is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 76
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blindboyjimi View Post
Cory,

I've had them all: Santa Cruz, Greven, Kopp, Flammang, current Gibsons, vintage Gibsons, vintage Kalamazoos, in deep body, X-braced, ladder braced, 12, 13, or 14 fret, in Maple, Mahogany, Rosewood, Mahogany topped and Spruce topped and from 24.75"-25.4" scale.



What is it that you are looking for? What do you play, what type neck and feel do you like? The range of $1500-5000 will get you a straightforward Gibson to a custom hand made Fairbanks, or an 85 year old original in beautiful condition. I'm a fan of all of them and hold no prejudice. If you gave me $5,000 (or whatever your budget is) to spend for you, I'd ask you the exact questions above.


I play Tommy Emmanuel kind of music and some Japanese finger-style. The sound I'm looking for is balanced, focus but not lack bass-end response.
Actually different neck shapes makes little difference to me except U and deep V, cause I use my thumb a lot. Also I prefer 1 3/4 nur width and longer scale. Because for the most of time I'd play open tuning songs.
I've found there's a maple Greven NL, a mahogany H-13 and some 30's Gibsons for sale at 4K-5k price range on Reverb now, which on do you recommend? Thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
WTB Somogyi Mod-D, Greven, and Greenfield G5. PM Please. Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-25-2017, 11:22 AM
blindboyjimi's Avatar
blindboyjimi blindboyjimi is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,374
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoryKeW View Post
I play Tommy Emmanuel kind of music and some Japanese finger-style. The sound I'm looking for is balanced, focus but not lack bass-end response.
Actually different neck shapes makes little difference to me except U and deep V, cause I use my thumb a lot. Also I prefer 1 3/4 nur width and longer scale. Because for the most of time I'd play open tuning songs.
I've found there's a maple Greven NL, a mahogany H-13 and some 30's Gibsons for sale at 4K-5k price range on Reverb now, which on do you recommend? Thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hmmm, if you just told me the above, I'd recommend a long scale 00. 00's are much more balanced than the L-00. The L-00 is known as a mid-range boosted, low reverb, fast attack, fast decay, yet full sustain and with a natural scale length of 24.75" so great for bends, slides and vibrato. This works for blues and ragtime really well. Now you can play any music on any guitar. I've had a Adi/Brazilian L-00 that was great for fingerstyle yet at 24.75, it was a poor choice for altered tunings especially DADGAD. You need long scale and a non Gibson design. If you like the midrange and yet want more sustain and reverb the SCGC H-13 is a good compromise. I have had a ADI/Mahogany and a Mahogany/Mahogany. They are standard with 1 3/4 x 2 3/16" so the saddle is a bit narrow for me, but if can handle that, you'd be right there. Someone mentioned the 1929 00. The 00 is short scale, but the 000 is long. Yet if you go that way, it's a very dark tone, unique, but not that versatile and if you go long scale 000 you are essentially playing a 12 fret OM sized guitar. The OM is the standard for fingerstyle and altered tunings. To go full circle, a balanced OM sounding guitar that can handle altered tunings in a smaller package is the long scale 00. I hope that helps.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=