Arranging study group session #2

[tbeltrans]

Since there has been interest expressed to do another arranging study group thread, here is #2. As was suggested, folks who want to participate in the arranging, please post your ideas for a song to arrange. I will wait a day or two, depending on how many nominations for songs we get, and then pick one to do. If we don't see any nominations, I will just pick one.

In thinking about this, I won't pick "By the Time I Get To Phoenix" because I have already been working on it, and the idea here is to do something fresh, so we are all starting from a fresh perspective.

So if you have been thinking about doing an arrangement for a tune, but have yet to start, this could be the inspiration to dive into it - nominate that tune!

Tony

[stanron]

There seems to be a slow take up on this, so to bring it back to the top of the page, how about this?

Instead of one of the arrangers choosing a song why not get EllaMom or another 'arranger-to-be' to select a song.

Also, with each arrangement, a description of process or perhaps an analysis of principals or something to give would be arrangers an idea of how we got to wherever we get to.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by stanron

There seems to be a slow take up on this, so to bring it back to the top of the page, how about this?

Instead of one of the arrangers choosing a song why not get EllaMom or another 'arranger-to-be' to select a song.

Also, with each arrangement, a description of process or perhaps an analysis of principals or something to give would be arrangers an idea of how we got to wherever we get to.

Excellent ideas, stanron. Thanks!

As for the description of the process, we did that last time, but with varying degrees of success, I suppose. Maybe we could each provide more detail in that area.

So EllaMom or other "arranger-to-be", care to select a song to get us rolling? Hopefully, we will get folks involved in arranging again once the song is chosen. It is participation that will make these threads successful and will determine whether there is another arranging thread.

Tony

[EllaMom]

Oh man....the pressure! hehe

Well, how about "Imagine" by the Beatles?

There are two reasons why I am suggesting this song. First, I have been practicing a very easy arrangement of it. I quickly realized that it just repeats itself, with no variation to speak of, in this particular arrangement. That translates to, for me at least.....BORING! So just last night I was trying to figure out how it might be arranged in such a way that there would be some variety. Hearing different arrangements, even if just the first verse, in effect will suggest to my ears different ways to "attack" this current assignment in my self-assigned lesson plan.

[Grinning Boy]

Originally Posted by stanron

There seems to be a slow take up on this, so to bring it back to the top of the page, how about this?

Instead of one of the arrangers choosing a song why not get EllaMom or another 'arranger-to-be' to select a song.

Also, with each arrangement, a description of process or perhaps an analysis of principals or something to give would be arrangers an idea of how we got to wherever we get to.

A really great idea Stanron! I had been trying to think up a pretty, but simple and sparse melody. I just saw EllaMom suggested Imagine and that seems like a really good one!

And yes, I hope there will be more presentations of the process people use. I personally find that very interesting and informative.

[tbeltrans]

In bands that I have played in, we would typically go through a whole bunch of tunes, and pick those that worked well with the capabilities and instrumentation we had. In other words, not all tunes work well in all situations. Typically, we would tend to discard more tunes than we kept. Some tunes we thought might work, didn't when we tried them. so we might pick something from our "disard" pile and find that that tune did work after all.

We can work on "Imagine" and see how it turns out. It is not a song I would choose for myself because I just don't "feel" it and agree that it would make for a rather boring fingerstyle tune. This has nothing to do with whether I like the original presentation of the tune. For me, "Stardust", "Georgia", "By the Time I Get To Pheonix", and many others would work. I don't know that I have the arranging "chops" to put life into a solo version of "Imagine". So, in going through lots of tunes, as we did in the band, I would tend to not choose "Imagine". But, then, maybe I would have to grab it from the discard pile and find that it works after all.

I am saying these things, not to complain about the choice, but in the interest of the thread, full disclosure of the thought processes of the arranging process. Part of that process is picking suitable tunes. I am sure that there are folks here who could make "Imagine" into quite an interesting piece. I am not sure I have enough imagination. However, I will give it a try and maybe it will turn out fine and I learn something from the experience.

So...we are arranging "Imagine" in this thread. Imagine that!

Tony

[Nailpicker]

Originally Posted by EllaMom

Oh man....the pressure! hehe

Well, how about "Imagine" by the Beatles?

There are two reasons why I am suggesting this song. First, I have been practicing a very easy arrangement of it. I quickly realized that it just repeats itself, with no variation to speak of, in this particular arrangement. That translates to, for me at least.....BORING! )

I agree about Imagine. I've heard the master Chet Atkins play a rendition that, despite his artistry and production skills and the fact I've loved his playing since I started playing as a youngster, I found his rendition nonetheless still just a tad, a small step above boring. Some songs IMO are simply boring and very, very difficult to get around that, even by masters like CA. If CA can't get it, I figure it would be a waste of my time. I simply forget about those songs and go on to another.

[Grinning Boy]

Originally Posted by Nailpicker

I agree about Imagine. I've heard the master Chet Atkins play a rendition that, despite his artistry and production skills and the fact I've loved his playing since I started playing as a youngster, I found his rendition nonetheless still just a tad, a small step above boring. Some songs IMO are simply boring and very, very difficult to get around that, even by masters like CA. If CA can't get it, I figure it would be a waste of my time. I simply forget about those songs and go on to another.

I agree it's not the most melodic tune, but its message and memories resonate with people. Check out Ed Gerhard's beautiful version where he medleys it with Across the Universe. Acoustic Guitar mag has a video of it.

[Grinning Boy]

Originally Posted by Grinning Boy

I agree it's not the most melodic tune, but its message and memories resonate with people. Check out Ed Gerhard's beautiful version where he medleys it with Across the Universe. Acoustic Guitar mag has a video of it.

Here's Ed's version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-xnfqw5dbc

[EllaMom]

Well, the fact that "Imagine" is kinda boring, melodically, is why I suggested it. That really puts the 'burden' on the arranger to make it less boring. It's not about liking or not liking the song so much.

Interestingly, as I listen back through many Beatles songs, they tend to be quite repetitive, and so from a guitar standpoint, I wonder what could be done, with no vocals, to make them more interesting. "Hey Jude" for example.

[Nailpicker]

Originally Posted by Grinning Boy

I agree it's not the most melodic tune, but its message and memories resonate with people. Check out Ed Gerhard's beautiful version where he medleys it with Across the Universe. Acoustic Guitar mag has a video of it.

GB, Although Imagine has never resonated with me, I do know it does with many, many people. Since I won't be able to contribute recordings to these threads because I no longer record, I probably should just stay out of these threads entirely in the future. I was trying to confirm EllaMom's view of the song. I've never heard Gerhard's version, but he apparently did what I often do with a song that is boring and repetitious; make a medley of it. For me other than just bypassing such a song, putting it into a medley seems to me to be the best thing to do. But putting into medley to me confirms that the song is, by itself, still, nonetheless repetitiously boring. Besides CA's, I've heard other well known musicians play this song...IMO all rather boring. I'll have to check out Gerhard's version. In medley format perhaps I won't be disappointed.

With that, my big nose is now officially out of the arranging study group mix

[EllaMom]

Originally Posted by Grinning Boy

Here's Ed's version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-xnfqw5dbc

Thanks for sharing this, GB. It doesn't seem so much like a medley as a two-song song, i.e., didn't he play the full version of Imagine and then went right into Universe? It would be interesting to hear what I thought was a true medley, i.e. starting with one song, moving to another, then back again, etc. Tuck Andress does that with Over the Rainbow and If I Only Had a Brain.

Medleys...a whole 'nother subject!

[Grinning Boy]

Originally Posted by Nailpicker

GB, Although Imagine has never resonated with me, I do know it does with many, many people. Since I won't be able to contribute recordings to these threads because I no longer record, I probably should just stay out of these threads entirely in the future. I was trying to confirm EllaMom's view of the song. I've never heard Gerhard's version, but he apparently did what I often do with a song that is boring and repetitious; make a medley of it. For me other than just bypassing such a song, putting it into a medley seems to me to be the best thing to do. But putting into medley to me confirms that the song is, by itself, still, nonetheless repetitiously boring. Besides CA's, I've heard other well known musicians play this song...IMO all rather boring. I'll have to check out Gerhard's version. In medley format perhaps I won't be disappointed.

With that, my big nose is now officially out of the arranging study group mix

Hi Nailpicker

I really hope you won't stay out of the arranging study group mix! I've really liked and appreciate all your contributions!

EllaMom did point out to me that the Ed G version is not technically a medley, but rather two songs in a row. And you're right. It is a repetitious and boring medley. It isn't a tune I would pick to arrange.

However I can listen to Ed play all day and I think he does a very relaxing rendition. In the video you can hear the lyrics in his head as he's playing.

[tbeltrans]

Well, as I said in a previous post, liking a song or not liking it and whether or not it works standalone are two separate issues to me. Maybe that is due to my experiences playing in a full time working band and having to make these decisions for our repertoire.

I can see both sides of the discussion so far. I agree with Nailpicker about the qualities of the tune for a solo arrangement, but can also acknowledge that the tune was/is very popular for its message. These are not mutually exclusive concepts, as any musician who makes repertoire choices can readily acknowledge.

We will do "Imagine" here and we may learn a bit about how to tackle a tune that might otherwise be boring as a solo arrangement. we will know when we go through it. Maybe having a discussion about ways that we can make the tune interesting would yield some good information for all of us. So, have at it and feel free to comment.

Tony

[EllaMom]

Hey, y'all won't hurt my feelings if you choose another tune. What do I know, after all...I've never arranged a song before!