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Old 02-08-2017, 08:58 AM
elwood76 elwood76 is offline
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Default Resonator Saddle Set-up

Hey folks! New to the forums. 41 yr old M from UK.

My OH recently bought me a Biscuit Bridge Resonator for my Birthday (not a National as they're way too expensive for 'at home' playing) as I have wanted one for years and years. I've always loved the old Bluesmen, Son House, Charley Patton etc and the little known maestro, Chris Whitley. (If you haven't heard of him, I suggest you check him out.) I was a gigging bassist and singer for many years, but have always dabbled with 6 strings, owning a few acoustics in my life, so I'm not completely new to the guitar/music thing. The guitar arrived with a great low action, overall the guitar is very playable. I may look at the neck relief this week.

My question is, the saddle that came with the guitar allowed the action to be very low, very playable with no buzzes, but also with no string slots. That being said, I was very surprised at just how good and low the action was. I ordered two new ebony capped saddles as I want to have a higher action for slide playing, as the action at the moment causes me to hit the frets with the slide. I'm competent enough to do this work myself, but just wanted to ask how to set up the saddle (what is a good height compromise for slide and fretting) and also some tips about shaping the saddle (flat, sloped etc). I have read a few things online to help me, but would rather hear it straight from the horses mouth, so to speak.

Although I have maintained my own gear over the years, a resonator is a new beast to me, so just wanted to ask advice from those more experienced.

TIA,

L

Last edited by elwood76; 02-08-2017 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 02-08-2017, 09:44 AM
blue blue is offline
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Well, it's nothing to be afraid of if you have basic skills. Yes slots are necessary in a biscuit saddle, and in a tricone saddle. Never owned a spider so can't speak about that.

For the best sound on a biscuit, it's best to have it be a "double v". Basically a V shape in two planes. Both vertically and horizontally. So the string sits in a V, and horizontally the slot should widen as it moves from the back to the front.

If you care about compensated saddles, this is where you can stagger them up a little by having some of the horizontal Vs start at the back and some at the front. I personally don't bother with that, and have all my strings resting at the back of the saddle. I haven't found this is a necessary step with tricones for some reason. Never noticed an improvement when I've done it.

The benefits are especially noticeable on the treble strings if before hand they sounded thin and weak.

Never tried ebony capped. To me singlecone biscuits sound very, let's say, "strident" to begin with. I don't want to brighten them up.

I used to be acquainted with the author of this "how to" guide on a long dead forum. He's pretty thorough in describing things.

http://www.littlebrotherblues.com/Ge...tup/index.html
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Old 02-08-2017, 09:53 AM
elwood76 elwood76 is offline
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Thumbs up

Thanks for the reply and info, blue.

Funnily enough, I had a late night quick browse of the stuff suggested at your link and found it to be very useful. I was going to go back to it and, seeing as you have linked to it, I'll definitely do that.

I'll try the ebony capped saddle and if I don't like it too much I can get a full maple one. As I say, I'm new to the resonator side of things, so all is a learning curve for me.

Thanks again
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:01 AM
blue blue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwood76 View Post
Thanks for the reply and info, blue.

Funnily enough, I had a late night quick browse of the stuff suggested at your link and found it to be very useful. I was going to go back to it and, seeing as you have linked to it, I'll definitely do that.

I'll try the ebony capped saddle and if I don't like it too much I can get a full maple one. As I say, I'm new to the resonator side of things, so all is a learning curve for me.

Thanks again
The ebony could be the greatest thing since sliced bread. I just have very specific tastes. I can't stand steel bodied biscuit guitars. The exact guitar that seems to be favored by just about everybody else!

So it's probably a 75% chance in your favor that you'll dig it! Best of luck and let us know how it works out!
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:16 AM
elwood76 elwood76 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue View Post
The ebony could be the greatest thing since sliced bread. I just have very specific tastes. I can't stand steel bodied biscuit guitars. The exact guitar that seems to be favored by just about everybody else!

So it's probably a 75% chance in your favor that you'll dig it! Best of luck and let us know how it works out!
Haha! Indeed. Each to their own, I say I have only played a vintage Style O once in my life, so can't really compare this guitar to that as it was many moons ago. I'm not out playing gigs or anything anymore, so whatever sound I get, I just get. I can always experiment over time for tonal qualities etc. Most time and effort is going to be developing a new style of playing on a style of guitar I'm not familiar with. Oh, the fun!

Thanks again, I'll keep you posted, blue
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:34 AM
Truckjohn Truckjohn is offline
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In terms of action and setup for slide.. High action and flat across the top of the strings. Usually between 1/4" and 1/2" high.

Hitting the frets with your slide is no fun.

They typically don't fool with compensating the saddles because you don't play the frets.. Your brain automatically adjusts the slide position to play in tune... Kinda like fingering a fretless instrument like a violin....
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:49 AM
elwood76 elwood76 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truckjohn View Post
In terms of action and setup for slide.. High action and flat across the top of the strings. Usually between 1/4" and 1/2" high.

Hitting the frets with your slide is no fun.

They typically don't fool with compensating the saddles because you don't play the frets.. Your brain automatically adjusts the slide position to play in tune... Kinda like fingering a fretless instrument like a violin....
Thanks, Truckjohn!

It's all new to me as I have always been one to get low action, but keeping an even tone and volume on my instruments, now I'm going high. It's all reversed logic

Hitting frets with a slide is definitely no fun.

I hear ya. My OH has a cello. Now that was a pain to set up. I got it close but in the end relented and took it to a pro.
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Old 02-08-2017, 12:12 PM
blue blue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truckjohn View Post
In terms of action and setup for slide.. High action and flat across the top of the strings. Usually between 1/4" and 1/2" high.

Hitting the frets with your slide is no fun.

They typically don't fool with compensating the saddles because you don't play the frets.. Your brain automatically adjusts the slide position to play in tune... Kinda like fingering a fretless instrument like a violin....
Maybe for a lap style guitar, but a roundneck buiscuit or tricone, setup about 3/32nds on the 1st string is a "do it all" guitar that lets your fret, play chords, and slide aggresively.
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Old 02-08-2017, 02:17 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue View Post
Maybe for a lap style guitar, but a roundneck buiscuit or tricone, setup about 3/32nds on the 1st string is a "do it all" guitar that lets your fret, play chords, and slide aggresively.
that's about the height I like them too!
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Old 02-08-2017, 08:47 PM
elwood76 elwood76 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue View Post
Maybe for a lap style guitar, but a roundneck buiscuit or tricone, setup about 3/32nds on the 1st string is a "do it all" guitar that lets your fret, play chords, and slide aggresively.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockabilly69 View Post
that's about the height I like them too!
Cheers, folks! That sounds more feasible. Any thoughts to what grit sandpaper I should use to shape the saddle and what is best used to make the string slots?
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Old 02-08-2017, 09:52 PM
blue blue is offline
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Originally Posted by elwood76 View Post
Cheers, folks! That sounds more feasible. Any thoughts to what grit sandpaper I should use to shape the saddle and what is best used to make the string slots?
Well, I have a couple of things I use. I have a set of needle/gunsmith files. They'll run you under $10 in the U.S.

When I want a round slot I use a welding tip cleaner, again under $10 where I am.

So if you want to try the "double V" get the needle (accidentally wrote nut here) files, if you want round slots, and also want something you can do some nut work with, the welding tip cleaner. The tip cleaner is quite handy.

I'm attaching link to a tip cleaner in case they call it something else in the UK.

https://www.amazon.com/Hobart-770084...2ATXARSVP0EF4J
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Last edited by blue; 02-09-2017 at 08:30 AM. Reason: Edited to fix the 3rd line of my response
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:01 AM
MC5C MC5C is offline
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You also want to raise the nut action a tad, maybe 0.010", which is about a playing card slice under the nut as a shim. It can just sit there, no need to glue, and you can take it out if you want to go back to normal action later. Action height of around 3/32 at the 12th fret is exactly where I would start. I make the saddle match the radius of the fingerboard, and I make the action height of the bass strings a little higher. If you are raising the action and still plan to play fretted as well as slide, then you need to adjust the location of the saddle for compensation when fretting, and file a ramp to move the B string back a tad. It will need more compensation due to the increased string height. I have both ebony capped and maple saddles in my resonators, and I can't tell the difference between them. Don't bury the string in the saddle, just barely enough slot to locate the string.
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:26 AM
elwood76 elwood76 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MC5C View Post
You also want to raise the nut action a tad, maybe 0.010", which is about a playing card slice under the nut as a shim. It can just sit there, no need to glue, and you can take it out if you want to go back to normal action later. Action height of around 3/32 at the 12th fret is exactly where I would start. I make the saddle match the radius of the fingerboard, and I make the action height of the bass strings a little higher. If you are raising the action and still plan to play fretted as well as slide, then you need to adjust the location of the saddle for compensation when fretting, and file a ramp to move the B string back a tad. It will need more compensation due to the increased string height. I have both ebony capped and maple saddles in my resonators, and I can't tell the difference between them. Don't bury the string in the saddle, just barely enough slot to locate the string.
Thanks for the info. MC5C!
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Old 02-09-2017, 09:32 AM
elwood76 elwood76 is offline
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Blue: Just ordered some welding torch nozzle cleaners for a few pounds, about a buck fifty. Just gotta wait for them to arrive. I have plenty of other things to do until they turn up.
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Old 02-09-2017, 01:53 PM
blue blue is offline
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Originally Posted by elwood76 View Post
Blue: Just ordered some welding torch nozzle cleaners for a few pounds, about a buck fifty. Just gotta wait for them to arrive. I have plenty of other things to do until they turn up.
Good choice. They remove material very slowly. That's why I use them for nut work. Nearly impossible to make a big mistake when your tool makes "little" changes.
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