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#61
04-26-2017, 10:37 AM
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 I worked with a sax player in the road band I was in years ago, and then later in a couple of different jazz groups. In my personal experience, if we think of different keys as being easier or harder, we are setting ourselves up for trouble. We can go on and on here about all this stuff, but on the bandstand, all that matters is that you can get through the tune. Everybody finds a way that works best for them. My way is no better or worse than anybody else's. The only important thing is that it allows me to play music. Tony
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The guitar is a wonderful thing which is understood by few. Franz Schubert "Alexa, where's my stuff?" - Anxiously waiting... 
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#62
04-26-2017, 11:41 AM
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I thought of an example from my work as a teacher-trainer and materials designer that reminds me of what we are talking about as far as ways to learn.
One common activity in a language classroom is to create simple crossword puzzles to help students learn vocabulary. I once saw an entire class of students solve a crossword without reading a single word. They came from a background where they were able to easily recognize patterns and shapes; they simply fit the words into the spaces as they would a jigsaw puzzle. The next day, I brought them a crossword puzzle created entirely with 10 letter words. They stared at it for a few minutes and then looked up at me shocked. With that change in design, they actually had to read the words. The point is if we just let the students do the puzzle, we might think they knew the words when, in fact, they had not even read the words. This type of thing happens quite often in language education. It's my job to ferret it out. As I'm evaluating ways to learn the fretboard, I'm approaching it with that kind of mindset. What is this activity really teaching AND how will we know when we know? I've been working with the idea of finding notes of the same name - an octave or unison apart. In a morning, I've become aware of the patterns of the intervals between them. (I think of it something like a 5th and 4th apart for an octave in that direction, another pattern for a unison.) Now that I know this, I could, with a little practice, easily go from any note to the same note even if I do not know at all what that note is. So, now, I could put my finger on a random note and go to a note that sounds the same (very useful in itself and I will keep practicing it). And, yet, I still wouldn't know the note name. Not that I couldn't force myself to get the note name, just as my students could have forced themselves to read the clues and words, but just to say the activity wouldn't necessarily help me get the note name. As I keep exploring, I'm looking for activities that necessarily help me learn what I need to learn, and not just want I need to know, but what I need to do. Suggestions welcome as always!
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"Militantly left-handed." Lefty Acoustics Martin 00-15M Taylor 320e Baritone Cheap Righty Classical (played upside down ala Elizabeth Cotten) Last edited by SunnyDee; 04-26-2017 at 11:49 AM.
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#64
04-26-2017, 11:51 AM
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You are correct but you're also getting things mixed up. C up to G is a 5th. Yes. G up to C is a 4th. Yes. But G is still the 5th of C regardless of whether the G is above or below the C. It all depends on what note you're measuring from. Think of it this way.... If the bass player is hanging out on a C and you play a G, that G is going to behave like a 5th regardless of which octave you play it in. Likewise... If the bass player is hanging out on a G and you play a C, that C is going to behave like a 4th no matter which octave. What you're dealing with here is interval inversions. If you invert a 5th you get a 4th. If you invert a 3rd you get a 6th etc... . .
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#65
04-26-2017, 12:05 PM
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In this case, we are talking about certain absolute notes, certain particular frequencies played at those particular frets. And, we are only measuring from that one place. In this case, the OP said to start on C on fret 3. That's one spot to measure from. And, I believe, those frequencies will only make one certain interval and that is a 4th because, I believe, those 2 notes in that spot are 5 semitones apart. Do you see what I mean? I understand that any G will act as a 5th in the key of Cmajor but we are talking about patterns on the fretboard in general where the strings are tuned in 4ths. It's important to me to understand that those two spots on the fretboard are 5 semitones apart because that means any two spots on adjacent strings on the same fret tuned in 4ths are 5 semitones apart. I'm going out on a limb here, but I'll try. I believe that on that place on the guitar, we are playing G2 to C3 (5 semitones). On the other interval, the 5th, it is C3 to G3 (7 semitones). Imagine if you were doing ear training and listening to harmonic or melodic intervals. You would hear two different intervals. Do correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks!
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"Militantly left-handed." Lefty Acoustics Martin 00-15M Taylor 320e Baritone Cheap Righty Classical (played upside down ala Elizabeth Cotten) Last edited by SunnyDee; 04-26-2017 at 01:03 PM.
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#66
04-26-2017, 01:15 PM
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C to G as a rising interval is a fifth. Count the letters. C,D,E,F and G. Five letters, a fifth.
G to C as a rising interval is a fourth. Count the letters. G, A, B and C. Four letters, a fourth. C to G as a falling interval is a fourth but intervals are usually described rising. That's intervals. Then there's degrees of the scale. G is the fifth note of the scale of C and that applies when looking for notes on a fretboard. In the diagram below, R (root) is C, 3 is E, 4 is F and 5 is G. Root, 3 and 5 are the notes of a major triad. Root, 4 and five are the chords of the three chord trick. Code:
╒═╤═╤═╤═╤═╕ │ │ │ │ │ │ ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤ │ │ 3 │ │ │ ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤ 5 R 4│ │ │ ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤ │ │ │ │ │ │ ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤ │ │ 5│ │ │ ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤ │ │ │ │ │ │ ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤ │ 3 ││ │ │ ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤ R 4 │ │ │ │ ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤ │ │ ││ │ │ ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤ │ 5 R │ │ │ ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
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#67
04-26-2017, 01:23 PM
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I think I made it too confusing. This is all I was really asking.
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"Militantly left-handed." Lefty Acoustics Martin 00-15M Taylor 320e Baritone Cheap Righty Classical (played upside down ala Elizabeth Cotten) Last edited by SunnyDee; 04-26-2017 at 01:31 PM.
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#69
04-26-2017, 02:10 PM
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__________________
"Militantly left-handed." Lefty Acoustics Martin 00-15M Taylor 320e Baritone Cheap Righty Classical (played upside down ala Elizabeth Cotten)
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#70
04-26-2017, 09:28 PM
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