Dual source suggestions

[janus]

Hi

I'm looking for a dual source system for my J-45. I have a Grace Felix, so I'm hoping to find a solution that requires no internal battery or preamps and can run on a single stereo cable with trs plugs.

I play both fingerstyle and strumming, so it must be able to handle the dynamic range.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Janus

[janus]

Ok, I guess I didn't do enough searching before posting. It looks like the K&K Pure mini and a DPA 4061 is a winning combination.
Are there any of you guys who are using this, who would tell me if you are still happy with it or if you're considering making some changes?

Thanks

Janus

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by janus

Ok, I guess I didn't do enough searching before posting. It looks like the K&K Pure mini and a DPA 4061 is a winning combination.
Are there any of you guys who are using this, who would tell me if you are still happy with it or if you're considering making some changes?

Thanks

Janus

I probably wouldn't recommend using a SBT and a mic. Typically, you want things that complement each other and the best approach is typically combining pickups wher one brings "functionality" & the other brings "fidelity." For instance, a UST or Magnetic pickup bring functionality and a SBT or microphone would bring fidelity. A good rule of thumb is that the pickup that is less natural is usually the most stable and those that sound the most natural are least stable.

SBTs are prone to feedback and a microphone even more so. I would recommend a Magnetic pickup or a UST to complement your K&K Mini and provide you an option in the event the K&K is giving you trouble in a setting. As a matter of fact, several of K&K's systems offer either their UST or Magnetic pickup in addition to the Mini.

Personally, I prefer Pickup the World pickups to K&K, but K&K are good pickups and very popular. Baggs also has some popular dual source systems like the Dual Source, iMix, & the Anthem.

[janus]

Thanks for your input. You are right – I thought the K&K was very feedback resistant, since they use it in the trinity system, but apparently not so.
The search continues

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by janus

Thanks for your input. You are right – I thought the K&K was very feedback resistant, since they use it in the trinity system, but apparently not so.
The search continues

The K&K Mini is pretty feedback resistant, but not as much as an undersaddle piezo, which is why the Trinity features one. My point wasn't to not try the K&K or DPA, but that they probably aren't a good pairing. The Trinity features (if in correct) the K&K Mini, a UST, and a mic. You're able to control the blend based on the setting, but the mic is typically the most feedback prone, so it's usually dialed in lightly. The K&K Double Helix is a dual source of a magnetic pickup and the Mini and they have a setup that's a piezo and the Mini. These are probably better setups than a mic and the K&K Mini. Or, you could try an undersaddle piezo or a magnetic pickup and the DPA

[rschultz]

I've been experimenting with dual sources for a few years now. The K&K is great for a main source... if you can EQ it properly... sounds like you can with the Felix.

I like using a mag for a 2nd source, adds some highs and aggressiveness that that K&K arguably lacks. The M80 is real nice, both passive and active (with body sensing). I also like the Black Angel and have tried the Fishman Blackstack. There are a hand full of mags that would help augment a K&K.

I've tried the Lyric + K&K, and this can work but they both excel in the midrange and don't necessarily augment each other as well as other combinations.

I am also currently experimenting with a Lyric + mag combination... I should be able to report on this sometime in May.

I've also used an Anthem + K&K in the past, but grew tired of the un-liveliness of the Anthem. Don't get me wrong, the Anthem is fairly bullet proof and also idiot proof... but just lacked both the warmth and round low end of the K&K, and also the aggressiveness of a mag, and also the liveliness of the Lyric. So I think I've moved away from the Anthem. Of note, you can't dual source an Anthem SL because the preamp doesn't allow soldering a 2nd source like the Lyric preamp jack does. The (full) Anthem has the preamp near the sound hole so the jack is not also the preamp.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by rschultz

I've been experimenting with dual sources for a few years now. The K&K is great for a main source... if you can EQ it properly... sounds like you can with the Felix.

I like using a mag for a 2nd source, adds some highs and aggressiveness that that K&K arguably lacks. The M80 is real nice, both passive and active (with body sensing). I also like the Black Angel and have tried the Fishman Blackstack. There are a hand full of mags that would help augment a K&K.

I've tried the Lyric + K&K, and this can work but they both excel in the midrange and don't necessarily augment each other as well as other combinations.

I am also currently experimenting with a Lyric + mag combination... I should be able to report on this sometime in May.

I've also used an Anthem + K&K in the past, but grew tired of the un-liveliness of the Anthem. Don't get me wrong, the Anthem is fairly bullet proof and also idiot proof... but just lacked both the warmth and round low end of the K&K, and also the aggressiveness of a mag, and also the liveliness of the Lyric. So I think I've moved away from the Anthem. Of note, you can't dual source an Anthem SL because the preamp doesn't allow soldering a 2nd source like the Lyric preamp jack does. The (full) Anthem has the preamp near the sound hole so the jack is not also the preamp.

Yep. To my point, the K&K is great but f you want to add a second source, a good mag or piezo is probably the better over a microphone. Soundboard Transducers are already, kinda, microphones. I use a Baggs LB6 as a my primary pickup and augment it with a Pickup The World #54 that I treat like a mic. Just like you would a mic, I cut the bass heavily and use it to bring air and a natural sounding high-end to the piezo and the LB6 brings feedback resistance and a solid low-end. If I'm fingerpicking I keep them 50/50 or maybe make the PUTW 60% and if I'm strumming I go 25/75% LB6/PUTW.

It's using each pickup's strengths in the appropriate setting. That's why I'm not a fan of the M80 or the Anthem: I prefer individual pickups that are strong on their own and then blending them accordingly. I don't like pickups that try to pretend that they're more than one pickup, like the M80.