All acoustic sound system makers have missed the mark - why ?

[Groovekings]

So here is the premise - looking at all the various systems out there for acoustic music, they all miss in some fashion. If you look at each product it is either (1) incomplete (2) too heavy (3) too expensive or (4) inadequate in terms of coverage or spl's

Examples

Bose compact - great design and very portable with quick set up BUT low SPL and too expensive for what it is ( $1100 here in Canada )

Fishman sa330x - great design and very portable but low SPL and very expensive. ( $1400 for base unit in Canada )

Line 6 L2t - perfect design high SPL, great features and high quality but too heavy at 39 pounds and too expensive at $1100 Cdn

Laney A Duo - great features, light weight and good price at $400 US but seriously underpowered at 60 watts

Can't the manufactures come up with something that hits it out of the park in all ways ? The ideal - single all in one unit, 4 channels, effects and feedback buster, weight less than 30 pounds with SPL of minimum 122 and a retail price of $800 Cdn.


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[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by Groovekings

Can't the manufactures come up with something that hits it out of the park in all ways ? The ideal - single all in one unit, 4 channels, effects and feedback buster, weight less than 30 pounds with SPL of minimum 122 and a retail price of $800 Cdn.

It's called Yamaha Stagepass 400i

125dB SPL max/ speaker
one speaker is 7.5kg + onboard removable Mixer 2.8kg = 22.7 lbs
8 channels with 1 Hi-Z and 2 with 30V phantom power
automatic feedback supression
Digital reverb




699$ US
well the only problem is that you have to dumb the 2nd speaker to fit exactly your specifications

[martingitdave]

You have to expand your options! :-) In all seriousness, you're correct. It is impossible to please everyone looking at the acoustic amp / compact PA market. Every system requries some compromise in terms of sound, features, portability, weight, etc. That said, JBL Might have just hit the mark with the new Eon One Pro, according to your wish list.

But, again, I would argue that there are so many options out there that you can find one if you look hard enough. Just list your parameters in order of importance and let the experts help you.

Secondly, I challenge your assumptions regarding SPL. If one is looking at small/light compact PA solutions, that person is probably playing to less than 100 or 200 people, or they have house sound to supplement. Your SPL should be no where near 120 dB for that kind of crowd unless you're in an extremely noisy bar. You're making people's ears bleed at those volumes. It's important not to shop based on specs on paper, but rather go listen and test the systems. For instance, the array systems push the sound to the back of the room without the ear bleeding volumes close to the speaker. Even though it is an "apple to apples" comparison, supposedly, max SPL at 100Hz really doesn't give you the whole picture. That's basically just male/female speaking range. It doesn't describe the sound for acoustic performance.

Everyone of us who have taken the dive into these compact systems has found something that works, even if we have to make a few compromises. We use all of the above on your list to entertain people every day. :-)

[Groovekings]

Good points all. My acoustic duo has to cover a huge range of potential playing situations, from house concerts to pubs, then large room and even outdoors. It makes me crazy to try and have a system that can scale to all. I have a Fishman Artist plus two EV Zlx12P powered speakers with all the paraphernalia - mixer, Gorack, headamp for in ear monitors etc etc. I'd love to give a single solution. Sigh. Perhaps it's another holy grail.


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[Cuki79]

I agree with MartinGitDave

the problem is the "mark" in

All acoustic sound system makers have missed the mark - why ?

.

The problem with SPL is that It's easy to have high SPL as far as the mids are concerned (Think ZT lunchbox amp). It's much harder to get high SPL as far as bass is concerned. Then you need class-D amp and Neodymium speakers to keep it lightweight. But then it costs.

The package being often incomplete is more difficult to understand. When you look at the JBL eon one with no Hi-Z input or the Bose L1C with the non removable Tonematch setting... It does not make sens... Then you realize that those things are not intended to be flexible.

Flexibility and quality does not reach yet your price point but it will for sure.

I mean last week: we were debating about the possibility "in our dream world" of having a line array powered by Battery and some of us (including me) even declared it was not even possible. Today we have two products released.

[rokdog49]

You could do what our duo did.
2 Alto Powered speakers and stands. $450



Yamaha MX12 XU Mixer $329.00



UPDATE: My playing partner just added a Behringer 12" sub-woofer to the mix yesterday.
$299.

Really sounds wonderful!

[ricdoug]

Carvin S600 fits that description. Ric

[stephenT]

The Schertler Jam 400 does it all. It is heavy, but we all could use some exercise.

[varmonter]

Dang dude you get what you pay for in this realm.
These little tiny systems designed to strap to a bicycle
Are a compromise between sound quality and compactness.
Trying to find one that sounds like the system you
Just heard at a lyle lovett concert is an exercise in frustration
at best. You wont find any good bass until you get
Above a 10 inch speaker. So you really need to
Settle on a system that fills your input needs.
If thats 4 channels then next look at power..
I am a big fan of no replacement for displacement.
The more power you have the better it will sound
At lower volume. As stated above 120 spl will make
Your ears bleed. But i wouldnt go less than 500 watts.
1000 is better 2000 is even better ad infinite.
So unless you are dead set on one of these array fishstick
thingys i would be looking at components.like a mixer
And powered speakers..you will be alot happier with
The sound..buy used and you get more bang for your
Loonie.

[Paultergeist]

Somehow.....the story of Goldilocks and the Three Bears comes to mind.....

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by Groovekings

So here is the premise - looking at all the various systems out there for acoustic music, they all miss in some fashion. If you look at each product it is either (1) incomplete (2) too heavy (3) too expensive or (4) inadequate in terms of coverage or spl's

Examples

Bose compact - great design and very portable with quick set up BUT low SPL and too expensive for what it is ( $1100 here in Canada )

Fishman sa330x - great design and very portable but low SPL and very expensive. ( $1400 for base unit in Canada )

Line 6 L2t - perfect design high SPL, great features and high quality but too heavy at 39 pounds and too expensive at $1100 Cdn

Laney A Duo - great features, light weight and good price at $400 US but seriously underpowered at 60 watts

Can't the manufactures come up with something that hits it out of the park in all ways ? The ideal - single all in one unit, 4 channels, effects and feedback buster, weight less than 30 pounds with SPL of minimum 122 and a retail price of $800 Cdn.


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That's why I bought a Carvin AG300. 200 W (250 W with an extra cabinet), three input channels with effects, sweepable mids to notch out feedback, weighs 30.5 lbs, can be mounted on a speaker pole, 48 volt phantom power, cost $479 USD. Oh and it sounds great on all my instruments from fiddle to upright bass. I've used it with success at indoor and outdoor venues.

[Silly Moustache]

When I decided to part with my lovely , old, reliable Peavey p.a. because it was just too heavy for an old man, I seriously considered the Schertler Jam 400 but they were unavailable in the UK at the time, so I went for a Bose L-1, plus a separate mixer.

My issue with most is the shortage of a) no of channels and b) lack of phantom power.

They seem determined that solo performers only have one instrument and that no-0one needs the quality of condenser mics.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

When I decided to part with my lovely , old, reliable Peavey p.a. because it was just too heavy for an old man, I seriously considered the Schertler Jam 400 but they were unavailable in the UK at the time, so I went for a Bose L-1, plus a separate mixer.

My issue with most is the shortage of a) no of channels and b) lack of phantom power.

They seem determined that solo performers only have one instrument and that no-0one needs the quality of condenser mics.

I agree, marketing a unit as a singer/player system and touting how great the acoustic guitar is going to sound , then lacking Phantom power seems fairly contradictory to me also. Guess it's why I have had either a mixer or preamp with phantom power, since the late 70's

[leew3]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

You could do what our duo did.
2 Alto Powered speakers and stands. $450



Yamaha MX12 XU Mixer $329.00



UPDATE: My playing partner just added a Behringer 12" sub-woofer to the mix yesterday.
$299.

Really sounds wonderful!

and a public thanks to MartingitDave for extensive pm consultation on our PA solution. Just committed to the first outdoor gig of the summer and can't wait to fire it all up.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by leew3

and a public thanks to MartingitDave for extensive pm consultation on our PA solution. Just committed to the first outdoor gig of the summer and can't wait to fire it all up.

No thanks needed! Just make awesome music for the world to hear.

However, if someone wants to return the favor and help me find an economical/compact speaker to work with the electric guitar molder, I'd appreciate it.


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