The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 12-04-2016, 05:13 PM
cheer tunes cheer tunes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 528
Default Basic Home Recording HELP NEEDED

Hi, I do basic home recording of new tunes that I'm working on and then I like to make MP3s and share with friends online.

My workflow for 8 years has been:
AKG C414B > Apogee Duet > Macbook Pro > Logic Express

I barely scratch the surface of Logic Express so if there is another tool that would yield the same results with a simplified interface I'm all ears. I really only use a few tracks on a demo.

I'm never satisfied with the sound of my recordings, and my computer is 8 years old so I'm considering a full makeover and would like to try another quality condenser. I do like a lo-fi warmer sound than I seem to get so any suggestions are welcome. I know this stuff is super subjective but please share your thoughts based on this info and things that have worked for you. I think I need to try a different mic, a new computer, and maybe even new software...

Please advise!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-04-2016, 05:14 PM
cheer tunes cheer tunes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 528
Default

Willing to try anything, use a PC, new software, new interface, new mic...

thanks

Last edited by cheer tunes; 12-04-2016 at 05:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-04-2016, 06:34 PM
DanR DanR is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: St. Clair Shores, MI
Posts: 2,525
Default

I have been home recording for decades although I've always used fairly inexpensive equipment. It looks like your signal chain is a lot higher end than what I've been using. As far as computer based recording, as of late I have been using Reaper. It seems to me that you just need to tweak your post processing (EQ/dynamics) if you're unhappy with your sound.
__________________
===================================
'07 Gibson J-45 '68 Reissue (Fuller's)
'18 Martin 00-18
'18 Martin GP-28E
'65 Epiphone Zenith archtop
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-04-2016, 06:58 PM
cheer tunes cheer tunes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 528
Default

Agreed Dan, that is something I have not explored. I think on my next recording I'm going to focus on getting the best takes i can and then send the track wav files to someone for processing.

Looking forward to feedback on gear and workflow for recording demos with acoustic guitar and vocal.

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-04-2016, 07:50 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 6,951
Default

With the recording gear you have been using for eight years, you should be able to make good recordings.

Thus, I suspect the issue is not your gear but one or a combination of these:

1) Your recording engineering skills need improvement; and/or

2) Your room sucks.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-04-2016, 08:26 PM
cheer tunes cheer tunes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 528
Default

Definitely a combo. I can get a strong signal so things don't clip but I don't have any EQ patience or skills and my room is bad pretty lame. I try to record acoustic guitar with two sources, blend of the pickup and mic about a foot out pointed at the 12th fret.

The mic is right into the Apogee > computer.

Is there any front end processing compressor or something I should be using?

I will post a demo mid week so you guys can hear what i'm talking about...when i make MP3 things get small sounding and very mid rangy...

I know I don't know how to EQ.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-04-2016, 09:06 PM
Doug Young's Avatar
Doug Young Doug Young is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 9,878
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheer tunes View Post
Definitely a combo. I can get a strong signal so things don't clip but I don't have any EQ patience or skills and my room is bad pretty lame. I try to record acoustic guitar with two sources, blend of the pickup and mic about a foot out pointed at the 12th fret.

The mic is right into the Apogee > computer.

Is there any front end processing compressor or something I should be using?

I will post a demo mid week so you guys can hear what i'm talking about...when i make MP3 things get small sounding and very mid rangy...

I know I don't know how to EQ.
For what it's worth, I almost never EQ acoustic guitar. I'd definitely suggest avoiding any processing on the way in. You can do any processing you need when mixing, when you can listen and reverse any decisions. Anything you do while tracking, you're stuck with. You should be able to get a good acoustic guitar sound with any "EQ" done with mic placement.

Actually, you should be able to get a perfectly fine guitar sound with something as simple as one of the small portable recorders (Zoom, Tascam, Sony, etc). Put it in front of the guitar maybe 12 inches away and press record. If that doesn't sound really good, you have some other issue. Most likely room acoustics.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-05-2016, 10:20 AM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: On the Mass/NH border
Posts: 6,663
Default

With that mic, you should not have to use the pickup in the guitar at all, can't imagine that it is adding anything good to the recording.
Like Doug, I rarely have to EQ anything on my acoustic guitar tracks - there was one recent exception, when I was remixing my new album one song in particular's guitar part was harsh to my ears, so I just took a little high end out, must have recorded the parts with strings other than my usual (it was tracked a couple of years ago, so I don't remember).
If you're picking up a lot of room sound, then constructing a couple of simple rockwool 'bass traps' to use as portable gobos might be an answer.
__________________
Mike

My music: https://mikebirchmusic.bandcamp.com

2020 Taylor 324ceBE
2017 Taylor 114ce-N
2012 Taylor 310ce
2011 Fender CD140SCE
Ibanez 12 string a/e
73(?) Epiphone 6830E 6 string

72 Fender Telecaster
Epiphone Dot Studio
Epiphone LP Jr
Chinese Strat clone

Kala baritone ukulele
Seagull 'Merlin'
Washburn Mandolin
Luna 'tatoo' a/e ukulele
antique banjolin
Squire J bass
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-05-2016, 12:19 PM
cheer tunes cheer tunes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 528
Default

I will record something this week and post a link here. I'll just use the mic signal and not the pickup (Sunrise passive soundhole).

My recording technique might be ok, perhaps the issue is in post EQ. Does anyone know if this mic tends to sound mid-range focused? That's been my experience. Granted I do use mahogany guitars, that might add to the mids.

Thanks for your continued insight
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-05-2016, 12:36 PM
Fran Guidry Fran Guidry is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 3,712
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheer tunes View Post
Hi, I do basic home recording of new tunes that I'm working on and then I like to make MP3s and share with friends online.

My workflow for 8 years has been:
AKG C414B > Apogee Duet > Macbook Pro > Logic Express

I barely scratch the surface of Logic Express so if there is another tool that would yield the same results with a simplified interface I'm all ears. I really only use a few tracks on a demo.

I'm never satisfied with the sound of my recordings, and my computer is 8 years old so I'm considering a full makeover and would like to try another quality condenser. I do like a lo-fi warmer sound than I seem to get so any suggestions are welcome. I know this stuff is super subjective but please share your thoughts based on this info and things that have worked for you. I think I need to try a different mic, a new computer, and maybe even new software...

Please advise!
I wonder what you're using for a comparison, since you are dissatisfied with your recordings. Are you comparing your tracks to commercial tracks?

If so, are you tracking at reasonable levels then adjusting playback levels for your comparison?

For many years the common advice for home recordists was to maximize tracking levels, which was a reasonable approach when using analog tape but exactly the wrong tactic for digital recording. The world has shifted slightly in the last few years as people have recognized that metering and distortion characteristics of digital recording are totally different from analog. But many of us still try to create raw tracks that approach the volume levels of commercially mastered material, and that just can't happen.

And playback volume makes a very big difference in our perception of the sound quality. "Clarity" and "impact" and "warmth" and many other subjective concepts of sound quality really change with different listening levels.

You could record Grammy quality tracks with your current gear. I would recommend that you look elsewhere than your recording chain in your search for improvement.

Fran
__________________
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key in California - www.kaleponi.com
My YouTube clips
The Homebrewed Music Blog
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-05-2016, 12:56 PM
Mbroady's Avatar
Mbroady Mbroady is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Asheville via NYC
Posts: 6,298
Default

Location, Location, Location

Meaning placement of your mic can be critical, especially if you are in a room that is not ideal. Loads of info (Some good, some not so good) on the net about mic placement.

I would work with mic placement before you spend loads on new equipment.
set up a mic and move around while recording. You would be amazed on how much a few inches in the right (or wrong) directions makes.
__________________
David Webber Round-Body
Furch D32-LM
MJ Franks Lagacy OM
Rainsong H-WS1000N2T
Stonebridge OM33-SR DB
Stonebridge D22-SRA
Tacoma Papoose
Voyage Air VAD-2
1980 Fender Strat
A few Partscaster Strats
MIC 60s Classic Vib Strat
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-05-2016, 01:30 PM
KevWind's Avatar
KevWind KevWind is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Edge of Wilderness Wyoming
Posts: 19,877
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheer tunes View Post
I will record something this week and post a link here. I'll just use the mic signal and not the pickup (Sunrise passive soundhole).

My recording technique might be ok, perhaps the issue is in post EQ. Does anyone know if this mic tends to sound mid-range focused? That's been my experience. Granted I do use mahogany guitars, that might add to the mids.

Thanks for your continued insight
First with:
AKG C414B > Apogee Duet > Macbook Pro > Logic Express.... As far as those tools themselves you should be able to get excellent results.
So no you don't really need a new mic, interface, computer or DAW

Second :
Sound wise whether or not you would record with the pick up and mic, or just the mic, or just the pic up for that matter, is totally and completely subjective.
There is no such thing as one or the other is better or worse. It is completely a matter of the sound you are after and how to get there.

Third: when you are recording in digital you should have the highest level peaks be at least -5 to - 10 below 0 ......

Fourth: If your recordings seem excessively mid-rangy ( it could be room problems) but you might also try positioning the mic other than pointing at the 12 fret (like pointing somewhere either just below the lower bridge area or at the top of the guitar where it starts to curve in at the waist .

As Fran suggested be more clear on what it is you do not like about your recordings and or what you think they lack
As Doug suggested processing on the way in is usually not necessary. And cannot be undone.


This statement is probably holds a key answer to what may be going on.
"but I don't have any EQ patience or skills and my room is bad pretty lame."

It sounds as if money spent on room treatment may be a much wiser investment.

And as for mixing knowledge, in general including judicious use of effects like EQ and Compression and Reverb , try to develop the "patience" to take the time to get some basic knowledge.
__________________
Enjoy the Journey.... Kev...

KevWind at Soundcloud

KevWind at YouYube
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD

System :
Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1

Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Ventura 12.2.1

Last edited by KevWind; 12-05-2016 at 01:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-05-2016, 03:26 PM
cheer tunes cheer tunes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 528
Default

You guys are inspiring me to do a simple demo (1 acoustic guitar track and 1 vocal track) and share for some additional suggestions on capturing good basic sounds.

I won't throw in the towel on my rig yet, knew it was a good when I purchased it, I just have not been getting the results I had hoped for. I go back and forth thinking I could just use Garage band and get the same results. I also mix with headphones and that is not optimal.

I get overwhelmed with the options in logic express and am also open to simplifying the software solution. I fall into that category of folks that just likes to write tunes, practice guitar, play solo shows, and that leaves almost no time to be disciplined and make quality recordings. I'm at a point where that is starting to hold me back as I don't have good, simple, polished recordings that I am proud of.

I'm also open to tracking a tune and sending the wav files off to someone to do EQ, effects, mastering. I think it might make sense to have someone that has high end out board gear process the tracks.

Please keep any insights coming, this thread is helping me a lot.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-05-2016, 07:51 PM
cheer tunes cheer tunes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 528
Default

Hi, I was inspired by all of the great suggestions so I came home from work and did quick demo of a new tune I'm working on. Two tracks - acoustic guitar & vocal. I didn't edit the sharp vocal note and there is vocal bleed from the guitar track that is a little annoying.

https://soundcloud.com/cheer-theband/cold-rain

The guitar was recorded with my AKG C414B about 18 inches out pointed at roughly the 14th fret. Thanks to those that suggested LOCATION, I heard you and did hear a W I D E variation in tone by moving just little bit. No pickup was used to record the guitar, just mic. The mic went straight into my Apogee duet into Logic express, NO EQ, NO EFFECTS on the guitar.

Though headphones it's not too bad. Used a Taylor, going to record with a Martin and J45 and see which guitar sounds best recorded.

Please let me know if you have any insights on ways to improve the recorded tone. THANK YOU
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-05-2016, 08:43 PM
Doug Young's Avatar
Doug Young Doug Young is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 9,878
Default

I think that sounds fine. It's mono, which contributes a bit to it sounding less full or produced sounding than many commercial CDs, but it's nice and "honest" sound. Is there a slight slap echo or something on the vocal? It sort of comes and goes. For recording guitar and voice, you have a few choices: overdub, so there's no bleed, using Figure 8 mics to minimize the bleed (Fran has a demo on his homebrewed music site), record the guitar with a pickup (yuck), or live with the bleed. The main issue with the bleed is just if you need to do something to one track that you don't want to do to the other (pitch correction, for example would be disastrous). but as long as you're keeping it simple and "live" sounding, bleed shouldn't be a huge problem.

But I think you're doing fine. If you want a little more polish, produced sound, (and assuming you don't plan to add more instruments) you might try recording the guitar in stereo with 2 mics, to get a little more space happening, and perhaps doing the vocal as an overdub. A nice reverb on the voice, nothing too obvious, just something to provide some space might be nice, too, tho keeping things fairly present is good, too.

Last edited by Doug Young; 12-05-2016 at 09:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=