All acoustic sound system makers have missed the mark - why ?

[ricklt]

I think that all people hear differently. What might miss the mark for you, someone else may think is perfect. I have had pickups I loved and pickups​ I hated. Don't think you can generalize to that extent.

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[Geoff@UK]

What an interesting thread - it seems that getting the 'right' sounding PA is the same as getting the 'right' sounding guitar, we are always looking for something better!

I've been down the lighter and smaller route and have tried lots of solutions from Bose to Yamaha but have finally settled on two. For small pub gigs I use my PV10 passive mixer with two dB Technologies L160 active speakers, small and unbelievable quality for their size. I put 2 vocals and 2 acoustic guitars and sometimes fiddle through as well. We are frequently congratulated on the quality of our sound. For larger indoor and outdoor gigs, I use the Peavey mixer with two LD Systems Maui 11 portable line array speakers, which are 'loud and proud'! Both these systems are easily transportable. My friend in another band has two RCF Evox 8s which are amazing, and if I was in the market to buy another PA, I would seriously consider them.

Whatever system you use my advice is don't buy cheap on either the PA or what you are putting into it. Get the best mics, pedals and cables you can buy. I have spent a lifetime of making mistakes on buying cheap stuff to have learnt this lesson the hard way. Now I'm a true believer in the TC Helicon world of vocal and guitar effects, their adaptive voice technology coupled with reverb and BodyRez for the guitar make a world of difference to our sound, and how we feel about it. After trying all sorts of guitars my gigging guitar is a Japanese Takamine EF261, which is light but produces a great amplified sound.

That's my two penny worth!


Busted flat on Baton Rouge

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

No thanks needed! Just make awesome music for the world to hear.

However, if someone wants to return the favor and help me find an economical/compact speaker to work with the electric guitar molder, I'd appreciate it.


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Build your own or buy a cab and pop one in there.
It's cheaper, the quality will be better and you can get exactly what you want in the way of a speaker.
The gang at Weber Speakers can help you decide what would work best.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

Build your own or buy a cab and pop one in there.
It's cheaper, the quality will be better and you can get exactly what you want in the way of a speaker.
The gang at Weber Speakers can help you decide what would work best.

Thanks! I'm considering that.


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[Pitar]

Originally Posted by Groovekings

So here is the premise - looking at all the various systems out there for acoustic music, they all miss in some fashion. If you look at each product it is either (1) incomplete (2) too heavy (3) too expensive or (4) inadequate in terms of coverage or spl's

Examples

Bose compact - great design and very portable with quick set up BUT low SPL and too expensive for what it is ( $1100 here in Canada )

Fishman sa330x - great design and very portable but low SPL and very expensive. ( $1400 for base unit in Canada )

Line 6 L2t - perfect design high SPL, great features and high quality but too heavy at 39 pounds and too expensive at $1100 Cdn

Laney A Duo - great features, light weight and good price at $400 US but seriously underpowered at 60 watts

Can't the manufactures come up with something that hits it out of the park in all ways ? The ideal - single all in one unit, 4 channels, effects and feedback buster, weight less than 30 pounds with SPL of minimum 122 and a retail price of $800 Cdn.


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Gonna fight you on your spec-headed observations. My sound checks keep the Fishman SA220 nowhere near its capability and that's in the corner of a noisy 5000 Sq-Ft bar, house PA off. People do want to hear themselves talk. If you connect with them on a song they'll let you know when to break glass and the SA220 obliges.

[ManyMartinMan]

Originally Posted by ricklt

I think that all people hear differently. What might miss the mark for you, someone else may think is perfect.

Not speaking directly to the OP but what I have seen a lot of over the years is people buying amps, PA's, electronics, electric guitars, acoustic guitars, pedals ...etc. and expecting the "accessories" to magically give them "the sound" they are seeking. My experience has taught me that "you" (the owner) need to spend the time learning the equipment and how to maximize it and its performance. There's a reason we (musicians) need great sound engineers, mixers, editors, and producers. They know what we need to know when it comes to coaxing the best sound out of acoustic/sound equipment.

To the OP: All the equipment listed in the original posting is being used by many people with excellent results. Your experience/results/application may vary.

[Davis Webb]

Originally Posted by Groovekings

So here is the premise - looking at all the various systems out there for acoustic music, they all miss in some fashion. If you look at each product it is either (1) incomplete (2) too heavy (3) too expensive or (4) inadequate in terms of coverage or spl's

Examples

Bose compact - great design and very portable with quick set up BUT low SPL and too expensive for what it is ( $1100 here in Canada )

Fishman sa330x - great design and very portable but low SPL and very expensive. ( $1400 for base unit in Canada )

Line 6 L2t - perfect design high SPL, great features and high quality but too heavy at 39 pounds and too expensive at $1100 Cdn

Laney A Duo - great features, light weight and good price at $400 US but seriously underpowered at 60 watts

Can't the manufactures come up with something that hits it out of the park in all ways ? The ideal - single all in one unit, 4 channels, effects and feedback buster, weight less than 30 pounds with SPL of minimum 122 and a retail price of $800 Cdn.


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Thank me with Champagne. I just solved your problem.

The Yorkville NX10C with 300 watts is a fantastic PA, light, powerful, great sounding. And under $500. Buy it and be done with your troubles. Rent it at Long and McQuade. Hell, just buy it, you will love it.

Anything it cannot do, nothing else will either. Buy an artcessories $80 passive mixer with its 4 inputs. Or buy a small mix board.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Thanks! I'm considering that.


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The reason I suggested Weber is because they are great "heartland" folks there in Indiana and they make fantastic speakers.

[midwinter]

I don't understand the aversion to just building a small PA. Powered speakers are smaller, lighter, and more powerful than ever. Mixers are dead cheap.

[slewis]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

...If one is looking at small/light compact PA solutions, that person is probably playing to less than 100 or 200 people, or they have house sound to supplement. Your SPL should be no where near 120 dB for that kind of crowd unless you're in an extremely noisy bar. You're making people's ears bleed at those volumes.

Agreed. Power hasn't really ever been much of an issue for me at the places I play. And I've said before that I really don't need a system sent from heaven that delivers Absolute Perfection for every one of my gigs that have 10 to 120 people at them. I've only used a few systems, for acoustic guitar and vocals -- the California Blonde, the Fishman SA220 and the Bose LI Model II. The latter two especially have worked great for me. They get a good quality sound and tone for both vocals and guitar to the audience for a few hours, and given all the other variables in any setting -- the room, audience size, pickups, EQ settings, speaker placement, etc. -- I just think people sweat the micro-details of Finding The Perfect Sound a little too much. Although of course we all want to sound as good as we realistically and consistently can. But hey, it's all our individual choice, too, so do what you want, and good luck to ya.