Help me understand basic home recording

[jljohn]

My pre-teen daughter has been playing guitar and fiddle and singing, and I would like to help her start recording at home. We're not looking for CD quality recording here, but we'd like something better than the voice memo function on the iPhone.

So, what are my options? I have a decent (iMac) desktop. I'm guessing we'll need a microphone (or two--one for vocals one for instruments) and maybe some software. But I really don't know what I'm looking for here.

So, what all will I need? Are there particular types of microphones to look for? What about software?

I know she'll want to be able to lay down one instrumental track and then put another on top of it, but I don't know how to accomplish that.

Any help (or even a primer!) would be great. Thanks!

[rick-slo]

Spend a few hours (days) reading prior threads. Dozens of them cover this in detail.

[jsanfilippo5]

Originally Posted by jljohn

My pre-teen daughter has been playing guitar and fiddle and singing, and I would like to help her start recording at home. We're not looking for CD quality recording here, but we'd like something better than the voice memo function on the iPhone.

So, what are my options? I have a decent (iMac) desktop. I'm guessing we'll need a microphone (or two--one for vocals one for instruments) and maybe some software. But I really don't know what I'm looking for here.

So, what all will I need? Are there particular types of microphones to look for? What about software?

I know she'll want to be able to lay down one instrumental track and then put another on top of it, but I don't know how to accomplish that.

Any help (or even a primer!) would be great. Thanks!

Before you start messing with computer recording and dealing with interfaces and latency, get one of these
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...eHpBoCk9_w_wcB

This unit is extremely capable and is easy to use- allows you to lay down 4 tracks, has built in mics, but also has inputs for 2 external mics as well. The unit cans also be hooked up to a computer as an audio interface as well. It's also nice and portable so she can experiment with recording in different places with minimal setup.

The computer is great but can be a rea pain to get things working the way you want and you can end up spending a lot of money when you realize things aren't compatible are you need x to support y and z to support b.....

Check out my sound cloud samples - all recorded with this little unit.. https://soundcloud.com/gibbyj-60/d55...ut-of-recorder

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by jsanfilippo5

Before you start messing with computer recording and dealing with interfaces and latency, get one of these
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...eHpBoCk9_w_wcB

This unit is extremely capable and is easy to use- allows you to lay down 4 tracks, has built in mics, but also has inputs for 2 external mics as well. The unit cans also be hooked up to a computer as an audio interface as well. It's also nice and portable so she can experiment with recording in different places with minimal setup.

The computer is great but can be a rea pain to get things working the way you want and you can end up spending a lot of money when you realize things aren't compatible are you need x to support y and z to support b.....

Check out my sound cloud samples - all recorded with this little unit.. https://soundcloud.com/gibbyj-60/d55...ut-of-recorder

Totally agree, anyone who is new to recording would do really well to start this way. The Zoom 5 or 6 are a bit higher quality (and a bit more $), but the 4 is fine. For editing and adding some reverb or EQ, download Audacity (free) or Reaper (shareware - $60), or if you have a Mac, use GarageBand, and you're on your way.

[paulp1960]

You said you have a decent iMac so I would strongly suggest Garageband which is almost free. You can always upgrade to Logic Pro X if you really get into it.

You would need an audio interface (USB) and a condenser microphone. Or you could just use a USB microphone.

[jljohn]

Originally Posted by jsanfilippo5

Before you start messing with computer recording and dealing with interfaces and latency, get one of these
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...eHpBoCk9_w_wcB

This unit is extremely capable and is easy to use- allows you to lay down 4 tracks, has built in mics, but also has inputs for 2 external mics as well. The unit cans also be hooked up to a computer as an audio interface as well. It's also nice and portable so she can experiment with recording in different places with minimal setup.

The computer is great but can be a rea pain to get things working the way you want and you can end up spending a lot of money when you realize things aren't compatible are you need x to support y and z to support b.....

Check out my sound cloud samples - all recorded with this little unit.. https://soundcloud.com/gibbyj-60/d55...ut-of-recorder

Thank you for this info. Like I said, I'm looking for a really basic setup, so this might be good. How does laying multiple tracks work with this device? Would she, for example, play guitar and sing while recording and then be able to listen to that track (on headphones?) while recording a fiddle track over top? Or is there some other way to do it?

[jsanfilippo5]

Originally Posted by jljohn

Thank you for this info. Like I said, I'm looking for a really basic setup, so this might be good. How does laying multiple tracks work with this device? Would she, for example, play guitar and sing while recording and then be able to listen to that track (on headphones?) while recording a fiddle track over top? Or is there some other way to do it?

Yes she can do that with this device. You'll get 4 tracks total, as she gets a little more advanced she can start bouncing tracks if she wants to add more. The manual is actually pretty good with the zoom.

I would recommend recording the Guitar track first, Then lay down a vocal track, then lay down a fiddle.. If she wants to record guitar and sing at the same time it will be more difficult to find a good mic placement. This would go for any setup you go with, Ideally you would want at least 2 mics set up for vocal and guitar. One on the guitar and one on the vox. In general, best practice is to record guitar track first and vocal next, this way you dont have the instruments bleeding into each others mics and you can get a better mix when you drop it down to a 2 track mix. With that said, if she is just looking for some scratch recording, she can play around with mic placement and get an acceptable sound for vocal and guitar and the same time.. Especially if recording in a very nice sounding room with good acoustics.

I would suggest getting a good set of closed back headphones too. Something like the Sony MDR 7506 too block some of the headphone bleed when recording - The mics on the Zoom are VERY sensitive and will pick up the headphone if you using an open back design.


Alternatively - With mac and Garage band, you can definitley accomplish what you want, you will need to purhcase a good mic, and an audio interface, or like someone said you can get a USB mic - but be prepared for some latency when multi-tracking. Depending on the computer and the interface you may get acceptable latency, but I never used this type of setup on an Imac, only have done this on higher end equipment/software.

I personally think the zoom stuff is perfect for what your trying to do since its portable.. You can bring it anywhere and record and not be tied to a computer or cables... That gets annoying quick, especially when just want to get some ideas down..

[jsanfilippo5]

If you do decide on the audio interface route for your Imac -

I would recommend this unit - http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AudioBox22

It Comes with an excellent software package and will allow you to monitor with zero latency with the onboard mixer - And it will let you monitor with Reverb/effect applied to the signal.

For a single all around mic - http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AT2020 Cant go wrong with this.. Audio technica stuff is pretty good, and this mic can be found in many studios, we used to use this for drum overheads...

Foe a little more - This would make a good all around mic as well http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Bluebird

And if you wanted to go stereo for the guitar recording - you cannot go wrong with these for the price - http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/C4m


You will also need a Mic BOOM STAND, XLR cable, and I would recommend a POP filter for the vocals. And as I mentioned before a good pair closed back headphoens would be good too..

[alohachris]

Aloha jljohn,

You're lucky to have a talented, musical daughter to share music with.

Looking for home recording info, huh? Well, as rick-slo suggested there are hundreds of great threads on the topic here at AGF RECORD. So check it out. Use the AGF 'Search' function. Also check out gearslutz.com forums - more info. To see what gear is out there, check out Sweetwater Audio as well.

RE: Equipment to start out on? Doug Young & others above provided useful info about small recorders. I also highly recommend them as your starting point. Small recorders can teach you plenty about the recording process, can yield very good results, & are affordable. The Zoom H-6 (best), H-1, H2n, & H4n are all very good small recorders that would work well for your goals.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/H6 - Over $300. Most complete. Like the meters. Can add external mic's.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/H4NPro - Under $200. Can add external mic's, more features than the H-1.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/H1 - Under $100. Simple, easy to use. Limited ability to add external mic's.

However, if you progress further into home recording, you will also need more than that in a recording chain, starting with your space.

Room Treatment: If you do move further into home recording using mic's, then you should TREAT YOUR SPACE. We've had plenty of threads here on how to DIY treat cheaply, portably & effectively. It's the only way to achieve consistency, control early room reflections & maximize your gear, at any level. It's BY FAR the biggest bang for your buck as you get into this - don't save it for last. Some links:

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/...-on-the-cheap/ - 2-8 of these & you're set, jljohn.

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/...adband-panels/ - Listen to the differences

http://ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html (optional: if you want to know the 'why's' of treatment).

DAW's. DAW software gives you the ITB (In The Box) tools, FX & controls you need to track, edit, mix & master a home recording. DAW's allow you to do it all w/ your mouse & your monitor screen. Just USB plug-in the small recorder to your computer & save & process projects to the DAW. You control it from there. It's simple (in theory). The recorders have built-in DAW's as well (Steinberg Cubase LE on the Zoom's). But most players prefer to use the recorders as a mic &/or interface for using better DAW's, like your iMac's Garageband (GB). Many find that it is MUCH easier to work off a computer screen in a DAW like GB or Reaper than directly on the small recorders with their many scrolling menu's, & difficult to see screens. Lotsa options w/ the Zoom's, though.

I recommend that you should Start w/ the free Apple Garageband DAW that's already onboard your iMac. Then, as your daughter progresses, you can move up to Logic Pro when you can (that's my recommendation for Mac owners, for many reasons - PM me if you have questions).

BTW, my basic front-end, two-track chain is: new 21.5" 2.8 gHZ, w/8 GB RAM iMac - Apogee Duet2 interface - Logic Pro X DAW - two 1TB Glyph external HD's for storage. NOTE: Don't store projects on your iMac's hard drive, use external HD's.

Mic's: Many choices. However at this stage, ya don't really need to spend much on great microphones, jljohn. The small recorders have mic's built-in. For external mic's (which you can plug into many recorders), Small Diaphragm Condenser mic's (SDC's) are typically used on acoustic instruments. However, Large Diaphragm Condenser (LDC's) vocal mic's are voice specific. Therefore, you & your daughter will need to audition them - before you buy. Again, with a small recorder, you don't need to buy external mic's yet. PM me w/questions RE: mic's.

Recording - Using the recorder for mono or stereo tracks is simple. You lay down single tracks (often guitars first), & then add your fiddle, bass, percussion, vocal or whatever tracks to that. Your daughter will need headphones to hear what's already been recorded while she's tracking (playing). If your daughter sings, then keep the vocal tracks up front & not lost in the mix. Record instrument & vocal tracks separately. Beginners always want to try & do both simultaneously, a mistake, IMO. It rob's you of several mixing options later & can create problems like track bleed. In any case, you can control it all w/ your DAW after the raw tracks are laid down one at a time. Record your tracks dry (flat) - w/ no EQ, processing or FX. Do that later ITB to taste. The recorders also allow for 2-6 tracks to be recorded LIVE simultaneously by several players in ensemble - a much more complicated & demanding process.

BTW, you can purchase Garageband (GB) training sessions through Apple. Check it out, jljohn. Highly recommended. I received 57 training sessions in Logic Pro as part of their 'One-to-One' program. Demystifies everything about GB at your local Apple store.

What AGFer's use - If you want to see what kinds of recording signal chains others here use for home recording, then check out this thread (very educational):

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...ecording+setup

A last thought, jljohn. In terms of costs, you don't really have to buy anything that's very expensive or even new. Aside from your local Craigslist site, AGF & gearslutz classifieds are good places to check for deals & save big time on quality used gear. HINT: pro recordists tend to take better care of their gear than home recordists/guitarists. Small recorders - used or new- are very affordable. (The simple Zoom H-1 is under $100)

Good Luck jljohn!

alohachris

PS: What about headphones, monitors, cables, pop filter, mic stands, external software, desk, outboard, etc., etc.? If you get further into home recording, those are some of the tools you'll need. As your daughter is a pre-teen, starting out w/ a small recorder, mic stand, headphones, & your free Apple Garageband DAW would be prudent & affordable. So, there is much to consider jljohn. Read as much as you can. Start using your ears to try out gear. Have a lot of fun sharing this process & music with your daughter! -alohachris-

[KevWind]

What Aloha Chris said above

[Goat Mick]

I totally agree on the GarageBand suggestions. It is a really good basic tool that will allow your daughter to progress and learn. Later on as you get more experienced with recording you may discover inadaquicies in the program and seek out other tools, but at that point you'll know what you're looking for instead of guessing and relying on others opinions.

Everything on my SoundCloud link below was recorded on my iPhone using the GarageBand app and an inexpensive Blue Microphones Mikey.

[SuperB23]

Garageband on your Mac or ipad and a decent Mic and headphones that will hook up to either is a good place to start. I've been happy with my Apogee MiC for this purpose, it plugs into my ipad or my mac. If you want to take it to the next level you buy an audio interface with regular condenser mics, headphones and studio monitors but now you are looking at a bigger investment but you end up with a decent little home studio setup.

I've been really happy with Logic pro for recording on my mac. Its super powerful and can do more than most people will ever need. I recorded 3 whole albums on it and my iMac.