The Value of a Live Workshop

[srick]

Last weekend, I attended my first guitar workshop. Our very own Toby Walker taught a small group of guitarists for three days at the Shaker Meadows B&B in New Lebanon, New York.

The workshop started on Thursday night and went through until Sunday afternoon. Overall, there were about twenty-four hours of group and personal instruction, two jam sessions and a private concert by Toby. And that’s just the beginning.

I noticed:

Presence: It’s way different than a video lesson because of the presence – you have to stay alert and focused. You don’t get as tired. Is it the sound? The reverberation? The stern look from the teacher as you drift off? Whatever, you absorb more of the information in less time.

There’s competition and then there isn’t: You may work to keep up with your classmates. but you will also hear their errors. You are forced to perform in front of others, yet there is no competition; there are many skills that need to be developed and your skillset is likely different than your classmates. The group is on the same page. They are there to learn as much as possible and enjoy playing their instruments.

Immersion: You are force-fed a tremendous amount of material, theory and technique. And like a too-full bucket, there’s spillover; you immediately lose a certain percentage of what you had practiced. But afterwards, something interesting happens: You begin to hear things in your playing (and others) that you had never heard before. Plus, you don’t have to worry about the affairs of daily life (too much) -– everything is provided – the last time you could do that was probably when you were 14!

Pacing and Customization: A live teacher adapts, repeats as necessary and if necessary, in a different way. A live teacher can identify what you are and aren’t doing and correct it. A live teacher can see a path forward better than you can because they have taught dozens and maybe hundreds of students. They have a tremendous depth of material and are able to substitute or add on as needed. Toby is all that and more.

Toby follows up with an intensive set of instructional materials. At the end of the weekend, my ears had changed. I was hearing things that I hadn’t heard before and my ears were providing a feedback to the muscles in my hands that had never occurred before.

If you ever contemplated going to a workshop, I say, “Go for it. You’ll be dead a long time!”

best,

Rick

[JonPR]

I absolutely agree! If you're lucky enough to have the opportunity to attend one, do it! You learn things you weren't aware you didn't know.

[Toby Walker]

Thanks for the critique and thoughts Rick. I think you nailed it right on the head. It's always insightful to know what students may be thinking before, during and after taking a workshop. It was a pleasure having you in the group.

[srick]

I'll tell ya Toby - I was in a different frame of mind all week. I think that the musical part of my brain got a good workout or at lest some new bloodflow! Just now I was just taking a break from practicing tri- puh -lets and will be doin' da-dumps next. (no snarky comments about my da-dumps stinking, please )

best,

Rick

[srick]

I'm re-visiting this post from a year ago. This last weekend, I enjoyed a similar weekend workshop (at Shaker Meadows) with Martin Grosswendt. Everything I mentioned above still holds true. You need to have a live teacher every so often.

I’ve gotten most of my learning online – and what’s wrong with that? Actually, quite a bit:

• There is no feedback, no correction
• Likely, your sound system is not good enough to project subtleties in the playback or when you record yourself
• Unless you have trained your ear, you will never hear your playing as others hear it. If (like me) you have learned from scratch, you likely have an untrained ear

And that’s what it’s all about. What are you hearing - what aren't you hearing?

This weekend, I learned some more about my deficiencies. It turns out that I was wound like a tight spring (and it has been that type of year). I tend to speed up. I skip beats. I forget to breathe and listen.

Fortunately, Martin was a very patient teacher. He has a voluminous and comprehensive memory of guitarists and their styles. He is able to adapt to different levels and gently offer suggestions (I need gentle, I need encouragement).

At the end of the weekend, my brain was overflowing with information waiting to be processed. Seeds have been planted and are waiting to germinate. It was a weekend full of incredible meals, great stories and of course, guitar!

If you are contemplating taking a live workshop, stop contemplating and sign up.

best,

Rick

[H165]

The workshops I've attended varied widely...but....disclaimer..I've never paid for one as a separate individual event. They have been at festivals.

About 2/3 of them were of no value to me. The leader(s) sat around, shot the breeze, ran off a few licks to impress the less experienced students, and generally admired themselves.

The excellent 1/3 however, easily made up for the others. The resophonic workshop I attended at Stevenson WA (Gorge Bluegrass) last year was outstanding. So much useful information I had to record some of it.

Ditto the guitar workshop at Blythe in January with Peter McLaughlin. Peter is a super player, a good workshop leader, and so informal and relaxed that even the beginners were comfortable asking him a question.

[min7b5]

As a guitar teacher and workshop teacher, obviously I have a vested interest in all this, but I honestly believe there's just something chemical that happens when you have an actual experience with other human beings. Not saying it's always going to be a match, but when it works it's magic, and you get inspired to move the ball down the field in a real and lasting way.

I am both a provider of online lessons/Skype, and someone that that spends a lot of time checking out stuff online, and it's great. But it is not the same thing. I've taught guitar for over three decades, and in the last few year in particular I'm really seeing a lot of people coming in for the first real lesson with a human being after they've been just learning online for a few years. And they're good, but clearly missing something. Even if they just jam a fiddle tune or a jazz standard with me for fifteen minutes they start to glow like they just had their first date or something... Human interaction is a big piece of the puzzle for sure.

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by min7b5

I'm really seeing a lot of people coming in for the first real lesson with a human being after they've been just learning online for a few years. And they're good, but clearly missing something. Even if they just jam a fiddle tune or a jazz standard with me for fifteen minutes they start to glow like they just had their first date or something... Human interaction is a big piece of the puzzle for sure.

This is really an interesting topic. When you say they are missing something, do you mean they seem to be missing the human interaction or do you mean they are missing something in their knowledge/technique/playing, some gap from only learning online that you can see?

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by srick

I'm re-visiting this post from a year ago. ...

I’ve gotten most of my learning online...

This weekend, I learned some more about my deficiencies. It turns out that I was wound like a tight spring (and it has been that type of year). I tend to speed up. I skip beats. I forget to breathe and listen....

At the end of the weekend, my brain was overflowing with information waiting to be processed. ...
If you are contemplating taking a live workshop, stop contemplating and sign up.

Hey, Rick, how great that you have this perspective from a year ago and are sharing it with us.

I'm learning online. I am considering a live workshop or something, but since accomplishing it would be a major feat, I'm really interested in your experience. If you don't mind being specific - from your comment, you mention issues with tension (do you mean muscular tension) and keeping time. Now that you look back on it with hindsight, do you think there were any clues to these issues that you might have been able to see if you'd known what to look for? I try to diagnose my own issues and figure out what I need to fix so I'm interested in your take.

[SprintBob]

In defense of Skype lessons, they are not perfect but you do have a live interface with a live teacher in real time. If you cannot find the right teacher locally or IMO equally important the right teaching environment, than live Skype lessons are a blessing. Locally I actually found a pretty good teacher but the room he taught out of in his studio (which he shared with another teacher) was extremely cramped and you had to contend with sound from another lesson next door often. I'm much happier with my Skype lessons from a Grammy award winning musician in Oregon!

[srick]

Originally Posted by SunnyDee

This is really an interesting topic. When you say they are missing something, do you mean they seem to be missing the human interaction or do you mean they are missing something in their knowledge/technique/playing, some gap from only learning online that you can see?

Sunny -

Both of those.

I noticed with both Martin and Toby, their hearing was so acute that they were able to quickly figure out what I wasn't doing and where the deficiency (in my playing) was. Then, they were able to correct it - physically altering my hand position when necessary. Their feedback was immediate!

best,

Rick

[joe paul]

That's cool! I was just wondering how that workshop went, glad you had a good time and Martin Grosswendt's teaching style suited you.
He's a good guy and a great player.

[srick]

Originally Posted by SunnyDee

Hey, Rick, how great that you have this perspective from a year ago and are sharing it with us.

I'm learning online. I am considering a live workshop or something, but since accomplishing it would be a major feat, I'm really interested in your experience. If you don't mind being specific - from your comment, you mention issues with tension (do you mean muscular tension) and keeping time. Now that you look back on it with hindsight, do you think there were any clues to these issues that you might have been able to see if you'd known what to look for? I try to diagnose my own issues and figure out what I need to fix so I'm interested in your take.

SD - I had no idea that (physically) I was so wound up. This tension seeped into my playing and even my speaking voice. The last year has been a stressful one and as much as you think you are beyond a significant life-event, your stress level may be apparent to others.

Martin's teaching is very zen-like. We started the days by strumming, then alternate picking, then patterns. When I was relaxed and staying on beat, there was a resonance in the room, a hum if you will, where the thee guitars were in unison.

I suppose that you can achieve this on your own. In fact over the next few weeks I will have to try. But duplicating the resonance of three guitars with a metronome or speakers doesn't seem like it will work so well. The zen experience relaxed me and helped me focus on the sound of the guitar. It helped me to forget about my thumb and let it strum on auto-pilot.

Like you, I have tried to self diagnose. I record myself, I play along with videos/mp3s, I play with a metronome; I don't think that it's good enough. For me, I probably need a nudge from a good teacher every now and then. In this case, a year was too long. OTOH, last year, life got in the way of any follow-up. My guess is that I'll follow up with some Skype lessons from either Martin or Toby in the near future.

Best of luck to you! There are some great teachers out there. Now that we have the internet, they are more accessible than ever.

best,

Rick

[srick]

Originally Posted by joe paul

That's cool! I was just wondering how that workshop went, glad you had a good time and Martin Grosswendt's teaching style suited you.
He's a good guy and a great player.

Hi Joe - I was very impressed. His playing was spectacular as was his teaching. We all had a great time trading stories and recommendations.

Unfortunately, because of the time of year, there were just two of us and Martin. But this may benefit him in ways that he doesn't yet know; his name is starting to get around and I turned him onto AGF.

I'm very lucky - I have had two excellent teachers at Shaker Meadows. Each one has greatly improved my playing.

best,

Rick

PS - Also, the weekend experience is like a retreat for me. It's so good to be apart from your usual world, if just for a little bit of time. It makes me think that I should go back to summer camp .

[min7b5]

Originally Posted by SunnyDee

When you say they are missing something, do you mean they seem to be missing the human interaction or do you mean they are missing something in their knowledge/technique/playing, some gap from only learning online that you can see?

Sure. I would differentiate between someone doing Skype and someone just watching online videos. The later may benefit from someone objectivity obsevering them. You can get pretty far without ever even realizing you don't have groove for example. Seemingly more often now I'll get a student that is technically very good, but has been very isolated, and has big timing problems that they just don't hear. Another more common problem is people who are very uncomfortable playing for and/or with others. These are things that a traditional teaching environment is really good for. When I do Skype lessons I usually have people play stuff for me and I share my observations, which is great for solo players in particular. But if they are interested in a style of music that is more interactive, a jamming situation for example, like jazz or bluegrass, Skype is not that great. I think if you wanted to learn my solo fingerstyle arrangement of, say, Freddie freeloader, Skype would be awesome (I think it's actually on Youtube). If you wanted to play that tune together, not so much. And playing together for that kind of student can be huge. I had a student this afternoon where we literally played Autumn Leaves non-stop for forty minutes. We traded thirty two bar choruses the whole time and recorded the whole thing to a thumb drive for him. I remember thinking that I didn't say almost anything during the whole lesson, but the last think he said before leaving was that it was the best lessons he'd had in a very long time, and later emailed to say he listened to the whole thing twice... For some areas of study, that kind of thing is very very important...