To the Martin afficionados: Mortise tenon vs. Dovetail neck joint

[Placida]

Originally Posted by blues2rock

Oh wow, I didn't know M&T uses actual bolts? So in essence, it's a bolt-on neck?

Not to my understanding, at least with Martin. There, the "bolt" is used to hold the two pieces together while the glue dries. Because it's an additional cost to remove it, it's simply left in place - no harm done. It's not a true bolt on neck in the same way a Taylor or other brand is constructed.

[Tim McKnight]

Originally Posted by blues2rock

Oh wow, I didn't know M&T uses actual bolts? So in essence, it's a bolt-on neck?

Some do and some don't. Martin uses their (1) bolt to apply clamping pressure and then removes the bolt after the glue dries. I use two bolts along with glue and the bolts remain in place after the glue dries.

Is their a tonal difference? Yes, there is and its measureable.

[darylcrisp]

Jason

In our home, we have samples of each. I've never thought to notice a difference-and definitely have never "heard" anything from any of our Martins to make me wonder about the neck designs.

what we buy, we buy because of how it sounds and plays, simple as that. design, added adornments, or cases they come in doesn't matter to my family. with that, i will tell you we had 2 OMJM's(these have the M/T neck) and they are killer OM's. I've played well up the Martin chain comparing and have yet to find anything better for myself. I did recently trade my OMJM(since we had two of them) for a 0018V(DT neck), its a totally different animal as far as woods and such, and a much different sound.

so simply put, we are really happy with either. long term neck reset never enters the picture for our purchase.

i don't think you can go wrong with any of the big name guitar companies-no matter what style neck they use(martin, taylor, goodall, etc).

buy what sounds and plays great to your soul

daryl

[theEdwinson]

I'm a builder, so I'm very opinionated. On my first dozen or so guitars, I used a hand-cut dovetail joint, made to the specs outlined in Bob Bennedetto's book, Making an Archtop Guitar. It took a good bit of practice to get it right, but I figured it was worth the extra work to own the skills. Every guitar since those early ones, I've switched to a Mortise and tenon bolt on joint. I figure that either joint will work out to be equal, provided they are well-executed and precisely fit, without any slop or gappage.
Bob Taylor was the first major designer to stand out proudly, and publicly proclaim the efficacy (superiority?) of the bolt-on neck joint. The current Taylor neck joint is pure genius, and easy to do if you have CAD/CAM technology at your fingertips. Many other builders, large and small, have since followed suit, with excellent results. My current mortise/tenon guitars sound better than my early dovetails, but that's because I'm a more practiced craftsman now, not because I switched neck joints. If it's done right, you really can't fault the mortise and tenon, or the dovetail. As for tone production, the neck joint has little noticeable effect, if any, in my opinion, unless it's badly done. What really matters is the quality of craftsmanship. I agree with Woody B and 15 Man. -edwinson

[theEdwinson]

Originally Posted by JoeNewbie

If you look strictly at Martin, you might be inclined to think that rosewood is "better" than mahogany and dovetail is "better" than mortise and tenon. The guitar industry is going through a bit of nostalgia and the most desirable instruments are those that are based on yesterday's instruments.

Switch to Collings, and the parameters are completely different. Collings uses the mortise and tenon joint but people would be hard pressed to accuse them of trying to cut costs...

We live in a world where people are ready to pay more to have scratches on their Strats and Teles, so the answer isn't always logical.

Amen to that, Brother. I buy my jeans at the Army-Navy store, still wet from the indigo dye. Scuffs are earned, not manufactured. And furthermore, when you see a long parade of Grampa guitars sauntering through the repair shop, you start to see trends where they go wrong and need to be fixed. It gets you thinking, how old is the guitar I'M making going to be, when it starts limping, and sitting down a lot?
I like the idea of a guitar that becomes a village elder when it reaches the equivalent human age.
Does anybody out there have an antique dining table with bolt-on legs? Did it ever break? How did you fix it? Is it still beautiful in all its aged glory, or did you finally have to burn its remains in the fireplace?
Neck joint/tone? I agree with 15man. -edwinson

[cpabolting]

Originally Posted by darylcrisp

Jason

In our home, we have samples of each. I've never thought to notice a difference-and definitely have never "heard" anything from any of our Martins to make me wonder about the neck designs.

what we buy, we buy because of how it sounds and plays, simple as that. design, added adornments, or cases they come in doesn't matter to my family. with that, i will tell you we had 2 OMJM's(these have the M/T neck) and they are killer OM's. I've played well up the Martin chain comparing and have yet to find anything better for myself. I did recently trade my OMJM(since we had two of them) for a 0018V(DT neck), its a totally different animal as far as woods and such, and a much different sound.

so simply put, we are really happy with either. long term neck reset never enters the picture for our purchase.

i don't think you can go wrong with any of the big name guitar companies-no matter what style neck they use(martin, taylor, goodall, etc).

buy what sounds and plays great to your soul

daryl

Yes...but you have compared the OMJM with the OM-28 John Mayer Signature Edition (It has a dovetail neck)? The difference is significant!