The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Build and Repair

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 12-30-2017, 12:14 PM
redir redir is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Mountains of Virginia
Posts: 3,627
Default

I think it's over kill but it's pretty cool too. I would look 'funny' or perhaps just different. Taylor got a bad wrap for their finger jointed neck/headstock design. I thought it looked cool but it was very non traditional. Very strong too but at a certain point you don't need to get any stronger too.

5 inches at the heal? That's huge.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-30-2017, 01:50 PM
LouieAtienza LouieAtienza is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,978
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redir View Post
I think it's over kill but it's pretty cool too. I would look 'funny' or perhaps just different. Taylor got a bad wrap for their finger jointed neck/headstock design. I thought it looked cool but it was very non traditional. Very strong too but at a certain point you don't need to get any stronger too.

5 inches at the heal? That's huge.
I think though, there's a distinction between cutting a box joint, and using a finger-joint bit on the shaper that is normally used for paint-grade moldings.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-30-2017, 05:57 PM
Carl1Mayer Carl1Mayer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 15
Default

First the progress pics:
Got the bracing shaped and bridge plate glued in

Glued the lining


and rough cut the top contour into the rim


by the way those little oscillating cutters are awesome and useful for all kinds of stuff, highly recommended.

Regarding the neck, since none of the woods Im using are especially striking, I intend to use a sunburst along the lines of old gibson mandolins like below to give it some visual interest. With this finishing the heel is pretty well blacked out so Im not too worried about the aesthetics of a finger joint there, the possibility of the glue creeping is really the only thing giving me pause.



Quote:
5 inches at the heal? That's huge.
yeah, i wanted a full 4" body depth and add to that a 0.5" arch height on both sides makes it pretty extreme but I think it would look weirder to stop it short

Quote:
That's pretty cool... I did something somewhat similar a long while ago, except I had the configuration the other way, the bearing surface was on the neck and the "saddle was a separate piece on the guitar, and the bearing surfaces were slightly eccentric so that when the action was raised, the neck actually pulled toward the body and vice versa. I also pocketed the heel into the body to make it less "visible". I also used a heavy spring to keep tension on the lower bolt, so the neck wouldn't move if I changed strings. Unfortunately I knocked the guitar over and I took too much off the heel block and the whole thing exploded before I could touch it up! But cool ideas here..

The only thing with the finger joint is that it may look a little funny once you carve the heel area...
Sorry to hear it broke, Im using some 93 lb belleville spring washers under the two top bolts to keep tension on the joint
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-31-2017, 12:09 PM
Carl1Mayer Carl1Mayer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 15
Default

Quote:
Quote:
5 inches at the heal? That's huge.
yeah, i wanted a full 4" body depth and add to that a 0.5" arch height on both sides makes it pretty extreme but I think it would look weirder to stop it short
Thinking about this more, instead of my original plan (top drawing) I may go for a little design change and make the sides taper or curve in the opposite dimension like the bottom drawing that way i can get away with a normal sized heel. It may make it feel a little more like a normal acoustic too, I was worried about the arch in the back protruding and making it awkward to hold anyway. Any thoughts?



Also got the top glued.


Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-31-2017, 03:12 PM
Rodger Knox's Avatar
Rodger Knox Rodger Knox is online now
AGF Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Baltimore, Md.
Posts: 1,892
Default

That's lot more arch than I had in mine.
__________________
Rodger Knox, PE
'56 Gibson J-50
et al

http://www.rodgerknoxguitars.com
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-06-2018, 07:28 PM
Carl1Mayer Carl1Mayer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 15
Default

Quote:
That's lot more arch than I had in mine.
I just eyeballed it off a few pictures of the original howe-ormes, I made it 1/2 inch tall and made it level off before it intersects the waist. If anyones got an original one Id be real interested in some accurate measurements of the contour and maybe a few pics of the bracing if its not too much trouble.

Anyway, I got the top trimmed to the sides and Ive been making some progress on the neck.



I ended up laminating the neck after all and instead of doing a full finger joint heel like I was planning before I just made some of the inside layers run the perpendicular in the heel part that way it still won't be relying on all endgrain but you shouldn't be able to see it even when the heel is carved. Also for the headstock joint half of the layers are a scarf joint and the other half are just cut out of solid pieces to form the angle, that way the solid pieces will bridge the scarf joints and the scarf joint pieces will keep the solid ones from splitting where theres grain runout from the angle cut. All said and done its rigid as can be but it took way too long to fit up and laminate the 30 individual pieces so Im never doing that again. Even at minimum wage I could have bought a nice neck blank for the time I spent.



For the fretboard I got black dyed maple veneer Im putting on either side of plain maple so it'll have a black-white-black pattern. Im also putting black veneer over the headstock, which I'm planning to make slotted.



The mortise and tenon part of the neck joint is cut and fitted. The rest of it is roughed out but it still needs some final fitting at the top where it'll ride on the saddle things.



Anyway its starting to look halfway like an actual guitar

Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-07-2018, 08:51 AM
redir redir is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Mountains of Virginia
Posts: 3,627
Default

What about the sound hole? How ya gonna get the sound outta that thing?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-07-2018, 10:26 AM
Rodger Knox's Avatar
Rodger Knox Rodger Knox is online now
AGF Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Baltimore, Md.
Posts: 1,892
Default

Hole is in top upper bout. I used what the Larsen Brothers used, which was a 12' cylindrical radius. I'm not familiar with the howe-orems design, so I can't comment about any similiarities or differences with the Larsen design, other than it looks a little more extreame.
__________________
Rodger Knox, PE
'56 Gibson J-50
et al

http://www.rodgerknoxguitars.com
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-09-2018, 01:15 PM
Sam VanLaningham Sam VanLaningham is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 1,233
Default

Had no idea this build was happening! Incredible. After hearing Nigelís Howe-orme awhile ago, then tracking the original, I wanted to build one but was dissuaded by lack of documentation of bracing.

I donít have much to add beyond that for now! Iíd love to hear comparitsve sound clips when done if possible....cool.

Same
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-14-2018, 06:58 PM
Carl1Mayer Carl1Mayer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 15
Default

Quote:
I wanted to build one but was dissuaded by lack of documentation of bracing.
Assuming this one doesn't collapse and sounds halfway decent Id be happy to give you proper dimensions for the bracing I used. Or if you have some pattern you want to try I can build some FEA models when I have some spare time.

On to the pics.

Sound hole cut and the edge reinforced with a maple ply. Im paranoid of it splitting since its so thin but the total braced soundboard weight is only 172g so I don't think I need to worry about the weight at this point





I ended up contouring the back in the opposite direction as the top to let me shorten the heel (like I crudely drew before). Got the bindings all glued and cut to match. Also added some support on the neck block to help keep it from folding over.



Back is laminated and braced with a bend a little above the waist so I can shorten the heel.







Finally get to close the box and then trim the excess back plate. Before the back was on I had been a little underwhelmed with how responsive the top was tapping on it but as soon as it was all closed up it ended up louder and more responsive than anything I've ever made. Hopefully that'll translate to something good acoustically.





I got the neck properly fitted and it can adjust from about -3 to +5 degrees on the neck angle





I made a bridge and glued it in place. The adjustable neck joint is already coming in handy. Since I moved the sound hole I couldn't clamp the bridge in place as I normally would so I clamped a straightedge on the neck and tilted it till I was happy with the pressure on the bridge.





Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-16-2018, 11:14 AM
mercy mercy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: So Cal
Posts: 2,997
Default

I love your willingness to experiment though I may not agree on all your choices. Still it makes for a fun look.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-17-2018, 06:55 AM
Carl1Mayer Carl1Mayer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mercy View Post
I love your willingness to experiment though I may not agree on all your choices. Still it makes for a fun look.
Aesthetic or structural choices? Im just making this as a kind of proof of concept so aesthetically I'm just trying to do the best I can with whatever material I have on hand (who wouldn't rather be using figured Brazilian rosewood and 300yr old spruce from the alps) but Id love to get more feedback on improving the structural design.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Build and Repair

Tags
cylinder top, howe-orme

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=