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  #16  
Old 12-30-2017, 04:06 PM
gray gray is offline
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Wow. This is a fascinating thread. I'll post a link over on the Let's Talk Guild forum. There are a couple guys over there that repair Guilds.
they might give some advice and encouragement. Great photos!
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  #17  
Old 12-30-2017, 07:09 PM
Dezmo Dezmo is offline
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Thank you Grey,
I think I said way, way, in the beginning, that I haven't much acoustic guitar experience in terms of repair, and certainly not at the deep end of the fix-it pool.
Frankly, the few suggestions I got early on were very much on the money. To do X, Y, and Z, you have to do A, B, and C. The steps to take have revealed themselves quite readily. Like those circle maze line drawing puzzles I did in the doctors waiting room as a kid, You can't get to the finish line except for one specific way. Theres not a corner to be cut or a step to be skipped. I've gotten crappier directions from Google Maps.
Pretty much all the techniques are documented all over the internet in one form or another, many times over.
I want to be successful in this project so when I pick up this old, worn out middling Guild to strum a few favorites, I'll get some finger picking satisfaction as well as the warm fuzzy history and achievement. Its gonna be GOOD.
I think I'm at the half-way point, once I coax the top into an acceptable flat plane. Cracks to be addressed, braces to be glues, and of course the back to re-affix.

I've been tiding up the lining, scraping and leveling, removing what little tear-out I had from the back. There are relatively few spots on the back that need fill in. A couple of medium mahogany laminate chips had to be glued back in place. Glad I saved every little scrap.

Cheers for now.
Auld Lang Syne in "C" for tomorrow night.
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  #18  
Old 12-30-2017, 08:12 PM
gray gray is offline
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Thanks for the response. I admire your patience and your attention to detail. and a Happy New Year to you too.
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  #19  
Old 12-31-2017, 08:38 AM
CosmicArkie CosmicArkie is offline
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I was surprised when I saw the link to this thread on LTG that there was another lunatic out there - this is "Sick Puppy", a badly abused F4CE I'm currently trying to bring back to life:




Some kind soul apparently used Gorilla Glue and some kind of epoxy, making it a real treat. Most of the braces were damaged/loose; the top was seriously dished in the same areas as the OP's, and it was coated in some really HARD crap.

The back is currently off. The bracing repaired and back in place. The top is back in it's original contour and cracks cleated.

It will be a long road to recovery.
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  #20  
Old 12-31-2017, 09:57 AM
Dezmo Dezmo is offline
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Will you look at THAT !! So much goop and goo. Did you take any gut shots during the work? I'm curious about how the bracing came out and if you did anything additional around the sound hole to strengthen the area?
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  #21  
Old 12-31-2017, 11:12 AM
CosmicArkie CosmicArkie is offline
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I did not do any additional reinforcing around the soundhole except the cleat of the center seam. The hole itself is in pretty good shape compared to the rest of the top. Sadly, I didn't think to take photos - the attached were from the Ebay listing.
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  #22  
Old 01-01-2018, 04:52 PM
Dezmo Dezmo is offline
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Default All the Best this New Year

All the health and happiness for you and your loved ones to share.

I have un-clamped the latest attempt to flatten the top. I have called it a success. The top is flat and now I can begin on the cracks.

The last bow in the top was very stubborn over a short distance. Flat clamping was making small improvements but I felt I needed to apply a little more persuasion.
Part of my Stu-Mac wood order , in addition to braces, were cleats and a 3 pack of spruce top pieces. I chose the spruce piece that had the most dissimilar grain pattern and sliced it into workable shims and spacers. On the top I supported my 3/4" B/C ply strip at either end with this shim stock. From inside I used a shorter piece of the same ply (about 2 1/2" wide), plus a piece of spruce shim stock directly on top of the inward deflection. The effect was an "over compensating" clamp, actually deflecting the top outward, topside. Just before setting the clamps, I wet the inside area with hot water and brushed it out, & removed the excess. Then the clamps.

This is todays work. A tiny section of the top needs to be glued down. I have the missing piece to go in as well. The crack is being glued prior to braces going in.







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  #23  
Old 01-01-2018, 09:23 PM
phavriluk phavriluk is offline
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Default bridge plate

OP asked in passing whether the bridge plate needs to be replaced. Picture I saw depicts the bridge plate split right across the string pin holes, from one side to the other. Does that not suggest a new bridge plate is a good idea? I haven't noticed anyone else commenting, so I thought I'd raise the question.
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  #24  
Old 01-01-2018, 11:44 PM
Dezmo Dezmo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phavriluk View Post
OP asked in passing whether the bridge plate needs to be replaced. Picture I saw depicts the bridge plate split right across the string pin holes, from one side to the other. Does that not suggest a new bridge plate is a good idea? I haven't noticed anyone else commenting, so I thought I'd raise the question.

Thank you, for pointing that out. I was just doing some detail work on the top cracks, while watching the TZ marathon, and saw the thread notification. There is a line straight through the peg holes. A fairly gentle probe with a palette knife shows about 1/32" intrusion.
As I have been working it seemed like a "Plate Mate" would be a good idea. I liked the design and it's intended purpose. I don't like the cute marketing names some items get tagged with; it sets off my spidey-sense.
The Bridge Dr. is a good example. when my Ex was going to toss in the towel on a Yamaha many years ago, high action, rear bridge soundboard belly, she handed off the guitar to me as a lost cause, much like this Guild come to think of it. I had no intention of doing major surgery at that time and installed the Bridge Dr. Over 3-4 weeks and incremental adjustment, that guitar turned out to be a great living room strummer, albeit with light gauge steel strings, tuned to pitch though. I could gig with it I believe, if I needed an electric/acoustic. (or I'd just bring my Parker deluxe )

BUT I still need a plan to address this, and tonight my plan "A" is to use a penetrating epoxy (west) on the bridge plate area to stabilize the wood. Then I'll fill the the area around the peg holes where needed. Toothpick sized stuff.
Then the Plate Mate. Once installed, I'll test the string and peg fit, just to be certain.
Thats my plan A, tonight. Tomorrows another day but I honestly don't want to pull up more wood than I have to on this top. At the same time I understand the gravity of this decision. Gotta weigh it out. This Guild is only supposed to become a comfortable household player. Makes me laugh because this guitar is going to need frets. I don't own a single fretting tool except the end nipper I ground down to pull #15.

Onward,
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  #25  
Old 01-02-2018, 11:39 AM
phavriluk phavriluk is offline
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Default plate mate

There's an opportunity here to save twenty bucks. There's no magic in a 'plate mate', just profit for the supply chain. Get hold of a piece of aluminum, .020/.025 thickness, and make a reinforcement plate instead of spending twenty bucks for a dime's worth of metal with six holes in it. Nice and light and easy to work. There's no ambiguity where the holes should go, glue it on and drill from the soundboard side through the bridge pin holes. Done.
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  #26  
Old 01-02-2018, 11:46 PM
Dezmo Dezmo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phavriluk View Post
There's an opportunity here to save twenty bucks. There's no magic in a 'plate mate', just profit for the supply chain. Get hold of a piece of aluminum, .020/.025 thickness, and make a reinforcement plate instead of spending twenty bucks for a dime's worth of metal with six holes in it. Nice and light and easy to work. There's no ambiguity where the holes should go, glue it on and drill from the soundboard side through the bridge pin holes. Done.
Exactly what was going through my mind as I set out for the days excursions. Let's just say this brass ground plate has been laying in my box of miscellaneous amp parts for over 4 years.



Beyond that find, I had the extreme joy of gluing in the first brace.
Shade tree guitar repair. I should have had some Merle Haggard playin'.

These are the longest braces (X) and as I look at the picture I'd have liked to have had another clamp on it for peace of mind. Squeeze out was even all along the brace. Clean-up was a PITA, prompting additional neatness on the next brace which is laid up for overnight.

First



Second



Tomorrow after breakfast I will put in the cross brace in front of the sound hole and aside from some finger braces the caved-in area will have been eliminated and braced. I'll also find some gauze to reinforce the X.

B.S. It'll be done before breakfast.
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  #27  
Old 01-03-2018, 06:54 AM
CosmicArkie CosmicArkie is offline
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Hey, Gary,

I can't tell from your pics, but I feel better using a plexiglass type caul during clamping to spread the wealth so to speak. Along the lines of this from StewMac:
http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools...Corrector.html

I picked up a 6" x 12" x 1/2" piece and cut it into assorted strips. One doesn't want to go too long due to the slight arch of even a "flat-top" top.

YMMV.
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  #28  
Old 01-03-2018, 10:42 AM
Dezmo Dezmo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicArkie View Post
Hey, Gary,

I can't tell from your pics, but I feel better using a plexiglass type caul during clamping to spread the wealth so to speak. Along the lines of this from StewMac:
http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools...Corrector.html

I picked up a 6" x 12" x 1/2" piece and cut it into assorted strips. One doesn't want to go too long due to the slight arch of even a "flat-top" top.

YMMV.
The plexi certainly has the rigidity. For the top cracks I applied glue, worked it in, and scraped the excess. On the topside I cleaned with water. Then I covered the seam with 2" blue painters tape, inside and out to prevent adhesion to the backing wood. Usually 3/4 on the top and the best I could fit inside. The seam alignment has come out very nicely but this F4CE is an "HR", hand-rubbed finish. In satin. Definitely not a candidate for gloss.

Some of the gaps had spread, I guess due to dryness and the top warping and shifting. Once the cracks were level and secure, I'd tape off the two sides of the crack (on top) and level the seam with the Titebond. It dries opaque and given the natural color of the top, (is that the "NT" designation?), at a glance it looks pretty OK.
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  #29  
Old 01-04-2018, 06:44 AM
CosmicArkie CosmicArkie is offline
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I was referring to using the plexi to spread the pressure of the clamps over the length of the braces to insure no gaps and no damage to either the top or the braces from the relatively small clamp faces.
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  #30  
Old 01-04-2018, 03:39 PM
Dezmo Dezmo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicArkie View Post
I was referring to using the plexi to spread the pressure of the clamps over the length of the braces to insure no gaps and no damage to either the top or the braces from the relatively small clamp faces.

I got it. Even with the wavy-gravy braces?
Maybe on my next project! I spent the snowy night at my GF's (steam heat) and took out the old Yamaha elec/acoustic. It was out of tune and the slightest hump behind the bridge was showing. Looking at the top I could see ripply drying effects. I detuned it and brought it home with me just now. Knee deep snow.

Before I left last night I had another little repair to clamp up. I cleaned both surfaces and dry clamped the piece for location. I drilled two 1mm holes, one high on the ear just below the point and one at the bottom just below the point. I left the tiny bits in the ear extension as I applied the glue, just enough for a slight squish. I pressed in the bits for alignment and used 2 clamps, cleaned up the goo and finished with 2 other clamps. No proud seams or lips. The easy stuff is like rice pudding. Sort of.



Fixed:



So I'm home, still snowing, co-ops' heat is toasty. Means just one thing.

More braces.
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