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  #61  
Old 08-15-2017, 09:37 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Originally Posted by CabinetMan View Post
Any recommendation on how to get it loose from the side material to shave it some if necessary?
Leave it be. It is generally easier to alter a positive/external shape (tenon) than a negative/internal one (mortise).

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But even doing that I will always have it in the back of my mind that I could have done better getting that block right.
It's great to strive for perfection, but in more than three decades I've never been able to make a truly flawless instrument in which some aspect of it could not have been better.
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  #62  
Old 08-20-2017, 03:09 PM
CabinetMan CabinetMan is offline
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Ok so I got a little more done.
Do you all glue the kerfing flush with the top of the sides or let it sit above by a little bit?
I'll post more pictures after while if I can get time.
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  #63  
Old 08-20-2017, 04:52 PM
Neil K Walk Neil K Walk is offline
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The latter. The profile of the kerfing should reflect the radius. By gluing the kerfing proud of the sides, that means that potentially you have less material to sand away - and ideally as little of the sides themselves as possible.

Also, I don't know if this is but when I used my homemade contraption I found that less material comes off the waist and that I really had to sand away a LOT of material from the ends of the bouts and the opposite ends of the body; the waist ended up almost being "higher" in profile than the ends.

PS: I also found that it's best to start off with the block plane (in order to take off more material quickly) with that in mind before scribbling graphite on the surface (to identify the "high points") and switching to sanding.
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2009 Martin D-16GT
2006 Larrivee OM-03R
1998 Fender American Standard Stratocaster (Natural ash)
201? Official Luthier's Forum Medium Jumbo (DIY build, Carpathian Spruce/East Indian Rosewood)
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197? Epiphone FT-160N Texan
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  #64  
Old 08-20-2017, 08:40 PM
CabinetMan CabinetMan is offline
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Originally Posted by Neil K Walk View Post
The latter. The profile of the kerfing should reflect the radius. By gluing the kerfing proud of the sides, that means that potentially you have less material to sand away - and ideally as little of the sides themselves as possible.

Also, I don't know if this is but when I used my homemade contraption I found that less material comes off the waist and that I really had to sand away a LOT of material from the ends of the bouts and the opposite ends of the body; the waist ended up almost being "higher" in profile than the ends.

PS: I also found that it's best to start off with the block plane (in order to take off more material quickly) with that in mind before scribbling graphite on the surface (to identify the "high points") and switching to sanding.
Thanks Neil, By about how much should I let it set above the sides? I was thinking about 1/32 or so. Tell me if I'm wrong.

So I have made my kerfing. Made reverse kerfing out of poplar. Cut it to proper size then rounded it over on the router table. Heated it on the iron and got it bent to shape.( I had made extra, when I tried fitting it to the sides without heating I found it broke if I turned it in reverse fashion but not if turned " traditionally".
I have NOT glued it in yet just have it sitting in the sides so it will hold its form.

Had a good friend that had a block of spruce that he gave me and I got my top braces rough cut. I'm STILL debating on weather or not to radius that top or just leave it flat and follow along with the plans. ?????????????????????????????????
I first thought I'd get away without having to worry about the neck angle if I followed the plans but I'm beginning to see that's not turning out to be the case.
Again thanks for all the replies and the help.
20170816_163327 by Cabinet Man, on Flickr

20170816_165306 by Cabinet Man, on Flickr

20170820_153708 by Cabinet Man, on Flickr

20170820_154019 by Cabinet Man, on Flickr

20170820_160538 by Cabinet Man, on Flickr

20170820_144436 by Cabinet Man, on Flickr
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  #65  
Old 08-21-2017, 08:40 PM
CabinetMan CabinetMan is offline
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Today I got my Kerfed Lining Glued in and didn't end up making too much of a mess of it. Overall happy with the way it turned out. Also Sanded the insides with some 220 grit .
Do you all recommend that I glue in the side braces or leave it be as is? I read somewhere that the reverse kerfed linings adds much more support to the sides than the traditional style. But I'm not sure and would appreciate some input on this.

20170820_163612 by Cabinet Man, on Flickr
20170821_104341 by Cabinet Man, on Flickr
20170821_153952 by Cabinet Man, on Flickr
20170821_155401 by Cabinet Man, on Flickr
Laid the back on just to see how it was going to look. Pretty happy with it!
20170821_160033 by Cabinet Man, on Flickr

I also rough cut out my fret board and bridge. I already know some of you will disagree with my choice of wood for this but I saw where Gibson was using some Black Walnut for one of the fret boards on one of their acoustics so that's what I decided to go with. I have plenty so that saves me some money.
20170821_163444 by Cabinet Man, on Flickr

20170821_103754 by Cabinet Man, on Flickr
Will probably be a couple days before I get to do anymore. Got to get back to work on some cabinets Got ALOT of spraying to do while the weather is good.
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  #66  
Old 08-22-2017, 01:07 PM
JonWint JonWint is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CabinetMan View Post
Do you all recommend that I glue in the side braces or leave it be as is? I read somewhere that the reverse kerfed linings adds much more support to the sides than the traditional style. But I'm not sure and would appreciate some input on this.
I believe the side "braces" are thought to stop crack propagation more than strengthen the sides. The old Martins just used fabric strips instead of wood strips for that purpose.
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  #67  
Old 08-22-2017, 01:36 PM
CabinetMan CabinetMan is offline
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I believe the side "braces" are thought to stop crack propagation more than strengthen the sides. The old Martins just used fabric strips instead of wood strips for that purpose.
Thanks JonWint, I probably go ahead and install those also.
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  #68  
Old 08-22-2017, 04:25 PM
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murrmac123 murrmac123 is offline
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Today I got my Kerfed Lining Glued in and didn't end up making too much of a mess of it. Overall happy with the way it turned out. .
Your kerfed linings look just great, CM....

Looking forward to seeing the end result of this guitar in due course ... I am guessing it is going to sound great...
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  #69  
Old 08-22-2017, 04:57 PM
dekutree64 dekutree64 is offline
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Originally Posted by JonWint View Post
I believe the side "braces" are thought to stop crack propagation more than strengthen the sides. The old Martins just used fabric strips instead of wood strips for that purpose.
Full height side braces actually do provide useful strength, allowing the use of extra thin sides. But it is more work gluing a bunch of short lining strips between them, and it's important to glue them in extra low humidity because otherwise when the sides shrink in low humidity later, the side braces will poke against the top/back.

IMO, side braces glued between the linings are more of a liability than a benefit. Still a lot of work, and they leave a vulnerable grain line right at the edge of the linings, and concentrate stress onto that line so it's probably more likely to split than a bare side. They do stop splits spreading if they get started somewhere other than the lining edge, though. And in practice I don't know if they actually increase the likelihood of an impact causing a split. Maybe some of the repair guys would have enough data to say.

Cloth strips (especially if full height, with linings glued over them) stop splits, and don't concentrate stress. Also easy. And since there are sonic benefits to making the sides as thick and heavy as possible, the stiffening effect of full height side braces is generally not necessary.

But since you have the linings glued already, I'd probably just leave this one bare.
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  #70  
Old 08-22-2017, 08:43 PM
CabinetMan CabinetMan is offline
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[QUOTE=murrmac123;5452775]Your kerfed linings look just great, CM....

Looking forward to seeing the end result of this guitar in due course ... I am guessing it is going to sound great...[/QUOT

Thanks for the compliment. I appreciate that. I'm looking forward to seeing and hearing it myself.
I hope it turns out good, If it does I'm going to give it to my 14 year old son for Christmas. He's truly the one that loves to play guitar in the family. I have truly enjoyed building this so far. Hard to work on my cabinets when I look up and see that guitar on the bench just waiting to be finished!
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  #71  
Old 08-22-2017, 08:50 PM
CabinetMan CabinetMan is offline
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Originally Posted by dekutree64 View Post
Full height side braces actually do provide useful strength, allowing the use of extra thin sides. But it is more work gluing a bunch of short lining strips between them, and it's important to glue them in extra low humidity because otherwise when the sides shrink in low humidity later, the side braces will poke against the top/back.

IMO, side braces glued between the linings are more of a liability than a benefit. Still a lot of work, and they leave a vulnerable grain line right at the edge of the linings, and concentrate stress onto that line so it's probably more likely to split than a bare side. They do stop splits spreading if they get started somewhere other than the lining edge, though. And in practice I don't know if they actually increase the likelihood of an impact causing a split. Maybe some of the repair guys would have enough data to say.

Cloth strips (especially if full height, with linings glued over them) stop splits, and don't concentrate stress. Also easy. And since there are sonic benefits to making the sides as thick and heavy as possible, the stiffening effect of full height side braces is generally not necessary.

But since you have the linings glued already, I'd probably just leave this one bare.


I understand what you are saying. When you think about it I see what you are saying that they could actually press against the "already installed" Kerfed Linings and cause a split. Thanks for the heads up.

I now believe I will leave it bare and as is. Thanks again.
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  #72  
Old 08-22-2017, 09:18 PM
Neil K Walk Neil K Walk is offline
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LOL. Congratulations! You're about to pass the point where I'm stalled on my second build! I'm actually about to put wood side braces on my sides. They're made from scrap spruce from bracing cut offs and I measured them so that they butt up against the reversed basswood kerfing the sides are EIR which I have found to be very resilient to changes in temperature. I figure if they expand, then it should be that big of an issue. I did it with my first build (actually, I used walnut scrap on mahogany sides with Spanish cedar kerfing) and 4 years later there's no issues.

Long story short, I say put in whatever you want but don't overthink it. Most luthiers who post over at the Official Luthier's Forum have said that they first 12 guitars or so are "drafts" - or woodworking experiments that are shaped like guitars but don't sound as good as factory guitars or even their own later builds.

Still...that first build is special so it's supposed to be a keeper. I'm told its real function is to get you hooked on the process so that you want to go through it all over and over again, tweaking the process and getting more elaborate with each subsequent build.
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~ Neil

2013 Official Luthier's Forum Medium Jumbo (DIY build, western red cedar, Honduran mahogany)
2009 Martin D-16GT
2006 Larrivee OM-03R
1998 Fender American Standard Stratocaster (Natural ash)
201? Official Luthier's Forum Medium Jumbo (DIY build, Carpathian Spruce/East Indian Rosewood)
1973 Takamine F360
197? Epiphone FT-160N Texan
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  #73  
Old 08-23-2017, 08:44 AM
CabinetMan CabinetMan is offline
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Originally Posted by Neil K Walk View Post
LOL. Congratulations! You're about to pass the point where I'm stalled on my second build! I'm actually about to put wood side braces on my sides. They're made from scrap spruce from bracing cut offs and I measured them so that they butt up against the reversed basswood kerfing the sides are EIR which I have found to be very resilient to changes in temperature. I figure if they expand, then it should be that big of an issue. I did it with my first build (actually, I used walnut scrap on mahogany sides with Spanish cedar kerfing) and 4 years later there's no issues.

Long story short, I say put in whatever you want but don't overthink it. Most luthiers who post over at the Official Luthier's Forum have said that they first 12 guitars or so are "drafts" - or woodworking experiments that are shaped like guitars but don't sound as good as factory guitars or even their own later builds.

Still...that first build is special so it's supposed to be a keeper. I'm told its real function is to get you hooked on the process so that you want to go through it all over and over again, tweaking the process and getting more elaborate with each subsequent build.
I can see where it will get you hooked real quick.
It's raining here today, so I cant spray humidity too high, so I decided to make myself a radius block for the frett board and cut out the pattern for the bridge. Then cut out the bridge.
Gotta quit on the guitar in a bit and make some crown molding.
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  #74  
Old 08-23-2017, 09:16 AM
redir redir is offline
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Ok guys, so I have gotten a little more done since my last post. Glued up my rosette out of some wormy chestnut go it routed out then routed the top and glued it in. Didn't get a perfect fit but not bad for the first time. Cut out the sound hole and Laid out the bracing on the back of the top. Glued the neck block in and trimmed the excess side material from the mortise.

BUT, I now have a problem. After the glue set, I noticed that if you are facing the top of the guitar and the neck is in the mortise, the neck is angled towards the right side of the guitar instead of being centered with the end block. Even when its in the mold. I still haven't figured out what's causing this.

Never got to work on the guitar any today. Started to work on my Real Job today then had machinery problems. Had to get a new miter saw. After 20 years of using my Dewalt almost everyday it finally gave out. The armature is completely worn out. Go Figure. ANYWAY;

When I made the mold, Every lamination was routed from the same pattern. I also used the pattern as part of the mold.
When I made the neck block I made sure all surfaces were square.

If any of you have had this sort of problem how is the best way of correcting it?

And Thanks for all the post on the bridge patch.



[url=https://flic.kr/p/XFYKdd]






You probably already stated this but what top wood is that you are using?
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  #75  
Old 08-23-2017, 11:22 AM
CabinetMan CabinetMan is offline
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You probably already stated this but what top wood is that you are using?
Its Eastern Hemlock. I had started another thread earlier about using this for a top.

There was a huge Hemlock that had fallen on my property and I cut the log up in 24" long sections then split it into quarters. It has been drying for a Looooong time. I have more that has tighter grain but I just like the looks of this piece.

Honestly I mainly used this because its my first acoustic build and I didn't want to loose any money if I screwed up on it. Plus it will be pretty cool to have my first build to use a piece of wood that came from my property. Actually the Wormy Chestnut that I made the Rosette out of came from a board that I took off of my barn several years ago and had kiln dried.
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