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  #16  
Old 01-09-2018, 10:08 AM
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min7b5 min7b5 is offline
Eric Skye
 
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I think a solid plan is to have one good dynamic and one good condenser on hand when possible, as different rooms and situations will be a better match for one or the other. Most of the time when I'm traveling and can't bring mics, I find most sound persons will have options. My default will always be a large diaphragm condenser because they just sound better to me, and I don't have to be right on the mic all the time. I find this a very easy setup in a small rooms with a quiet audience or a very large room or theater. For all the in-beteen shows it's often good to have a dynamic.

I've owned and used just about every mic for gigs over the years. In my mind the differences are pretty small, and I wouldn't use anything you can't afford to replace right away. Because first; most perceived differences in that level of quality will be lost in a live setting anyway, and second, it will take a dive at some point. But what it's worth, for many years my go live LD mic choice has been the AKG 214.

For a dynamic my choice usally is... wait for it... the SM58. The 57 is often sold as the "instrument" mic, but the truth is they are the same mic in different housing, and there's something slightly less harsh about the little bit of foam in the 58 I guess. Plus, if you bump into it there's not that loud clicking sound that the 57 makes with that loose plastic ring on the end of it. The Betas are nice too. I like that they are hotter. But they have this slight metallic sounds to my ear... I've tried seemingly every other nice dynamic, but for whatever reason I am still happy with a good old 58, when the LD condenser isn't on the menu.

I should say also that I've had a lot of luck with what I think of as a good in-between option; a hand-held style of condenser like say the Blue Encore 300, or Audix VX5, or similar. I once played a solo guitar thing for a big university graduation in an almost full outdoor stadium using the just the VX5. I felt like I was sound checking with U2! Worked great.

Most important by far is your experience with using a mic on stage. It really takes a lot of practice. When I first gave up pickups I would do elaborate experiments in my basement for hours, often resulting in all the neighborhood dogs being unsettled I'm sure.. It's a lot of trial and error. And sometimes it just doesn't work, so it's good to have pickup just in case
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  #17  
Old 01-09-2018, 01:15 PM
troggg troggg is offline
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Originally Posted by min7b5 View Post
My default will always be a large diaphragm condenser because they just sound better to me, and I don't have to be right on the mic all the time.
Eric, Are you talking about being right on the mic as a vocalist or an instrumentalist? I've heard your inspired guitar playing ... but not your golden vocal tones.

Another classic AKG "guitar mic" choice which is often discussed with the Shure SM81 is the C451B, basically a refresh on a mic that was ubiquitous in the 60's and 70's.
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  #18  
Old 01-09-2018, 02:57 PM
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min7b5 min7b5 is offline
Eric Skye
 
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Originally Posted by troggg View Post
Eric, Are you talking about being right on the mic as a vocalist or an instrumentalist? I've heard your inspired guitar playing ... but not your golden vocal tones. .
My "golden vocal tones" would clear out a room like a fire alarm. No, just talking guitar mic
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  #19  
Old 01-09-2018, 10:42 PM
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Chicago Sandy Chicago Sandy is offline
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Your friendly neighborhood dinosaur here. For guitar or dulcimer, a couple of SM57s. (I have a friend who insists on singing with one). They, along with the cockroaches, will survive a nuclear winter. Mine are going on 15 yrs. old (the mics, not the roaches).

And that's only if I'm not plugging in to the house system or they have better instrument mics. (Used to use a Beta58A for vocals, but now an Audix OM5 if there's no phantom power or Beta 87A if there is...and again, only if my mics are better than the house's).
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  #20  
Old 01-09-2018, 11:35 PM
M Hayden M Hayden is offline
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For dynamic mics, a 57 and 58 are pretty hard to beat.

AKG P220s are good, highly-directional cardioid LD condenser mics which deliver great performance and don’t cost much.

Here’s a clip where Eric Skye and Mark Goldenberg are each a foot off a P220 (in, admittedly, a nice quiet environment) - it sounds pretty good (and the playing is amazing):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MzdyolMVEmg
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  #21  
Old 01-15-2018, 05:38 AM
Vindellama Vindellama is offline
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Originally Posted by troggg View Post
Speaking of Edwina ... I'd be a lot more concerned with controlling feedback than the price of the Chinese capsule.

Interestingly enough, although I bought Edwina to be my live mic, that didn't really work out due to my inexperience; what has worked out is using her as a studio mic and as a practice mic through phones. You can really hear what you're playing and singing in such a setup and make appropriate corrections. Cause what Edwina's really, really good at is combining voices and guitars. This would be true if the capsule costs 20 dollars or 2000 dollars.

The other thing she's really, really good at is being just plain fun. When you have fun, you play better and you relax more. She reminds me of one of those mojo cheapo guitars like Harmony/Stella/Airline -- if you find yourself playing a good one, even though the sound isn't as technically advanced as a Lowden, for instance, you might very well enjoy playing the Stella more for certain songs than the Lowden.

Anyhow, whether you use her live or in the studio, she's a fun gal to have around!
Well... If you are more interested in fun and looks and don't care about diference in audio quality go ahead and buy an edwina where you are paying 400+ just for fun and looks.

If your more interested in sound quality and getting much more bang for the buck go with the sm81.

Here is a fair comparison of the two... Similar position, same room, 40's d-18 flatpicked:



Much more detail coming from the sm81. The edwina seems to be lacking something.

I'm also interested in mic'ing for live and was interested in both until I discovered the part about the chinese capsules and the complaints about noise issues.

Just didn't pulled the trigger yet because I don't know if I can just plug-in in whatever amp is available (even vocal/electric guitar amp) and if I'll need more than an ART tube M for these situations.
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  #22  
Old 01-15-2018, 09:00 AM
troggg troggg is offline
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Originally Posted by Vindellama View Post
Well... If you are more interested in fun and looks and don't care about diference in audio quality go ahead and buy an edwina where you are paying 400+ just for fun and looks.

If your more interested in sound quality and getting much more bang for the buck go with the sm81.

Here is a fair comparison of the two... Similar position, same room, 40's d-18 flatpicked:



Much more detail coming from the sm81. The edwina seems to be lacking something.

I'm also interested in mic'ing for live and was interested in both until I discovered the part about the chinese capsules and the complaints about noise issues.

Just didn't pulled the trigger yet because I don't know if I can just plug-in in whatever amp is available (even vocal/electric guitar amp) and if I'll need more than an ART tube M for these situations.
So, you're using an ART Tube M yet you express the opinion that I don't care about audio quality and you're concerned about cheap components in the Edwina mic. Whatever.

You also attempt to counter what I said was Edwina's greatest strength -- combining voices and guitar -- by providing clips of guitar only. Whatever.

Where exactly is the noise in this clip? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgxgyYlylsw

Oh, it doesn't exist, does it? And you can see how Edwina is struggling to handle two guitars and two voices. Sounds just terrible, doesn't it?

Then you make the statement that no one should care what gear looks like on stage. I guess that's the last word on that.

But wait: don't the Milk Carton Kids have the benefit of a sound man in that clip to make up for the cheap-capsule burdened Edwina mic? Well here's me doubling a guitar part and singing through one with nothing on it but a touch of verb:

https://themilkmen.space/lk-demos-2018

It should also be noted that a human being actually answers the phone at Ear Trumpet Labs, generally the company owner or his wife. Try calling Mr. Shure and see how far you get.
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  #23  
Old 01-15-2018, 09:13 AM
Vindellama Vindellama is offline
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Originally Posted by troggg View Post
So, you're using an ART Tube M yet you express the opinion that I don't care about audio quality and you're concerned about cheap components in the Edwina mic. Whatever.

You also attempt to counter what I said was Edwina's greatest strength -- combining voices and guitar -- by providing clips of guitar only. Whatever.

Where exactly is the noise in this clip? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgxgyYlylsw

Oh, it doesn't exist, does it? And you can see how Edwina is struggling to handle two guitars and two voices. Sounds just terrible, doesn't it?

Then you make the statement that no one should care what gear looks like on stage. I guess that's the last word on that.

But wait: don't the Milk Carton Kids have the benefit of a sound man in that clip to make up for the cheap-capsule burdened Edwina mic? Well here's me doubling a guitar part and singing through one with nothing on it but a touch of verb:

https://themilkmen.space/lk-demos-2018

It should also be noted that a human being actually answers the phone at Ear Trumpet Labs, generally the company owner or his wife. Try calling Mr. Shure and see how far you get.
If you care to read I'm not using an ART tube... I'm in the same place as the original poster. The only difference is that I've already researched both mics.
He wants a mic for instrument only. But I guess you didn't read that either... So voice/guitar setup does not matter.

When I was researching I found as much youtube users using the edwina as possible, and inquired about it.
Half of them stopped using it/sold it because the mic developed noise over time due to the low quality of the capsule.
It's like the case with cheap 600 bucks guitars... Would you pay 400 in abalone and 200 in wood or the oposite, or even better and spik the abalone all together.
You can get the same sound quality expending much much less. The premium due to looks is not worth it when is a compromise of internal components.
You can get a MXL 990 which uses the same components and get the same results.
A lower cost setup to compare since you choose milk carton kids:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaUrMkGz1Kc
And the thread where they talk about the capsule:
https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...ead.php?113623

The sm81 will capture more detail of the instrument, and you don't need to call them, since it wont develop noise over time. And better yet! Will expend 40% less, since there isn't any labor cost into making it look good with recicled parts.

Last edited by Vindellama; 01-15-2018 at 10:34 AM.
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  #24  
Old 01-15-2018, 11:24 AM
troggg troggg is offline
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Originally Posted by Vindellama View Post
If you care to read I'm not using an ART tube... I'm in the same place as the original poster. The only difference is that I've already researched both mics.
He wants a mic for instrument only. But I guess you didn't read that either... So voice/guitar setup does not matter.

When I was researching I found as much youtube users using the edwina as possible, and inquired about it.
Half of them stopped using it/sold it because the mic developed noise over time due to the low quality of the capsule.
It's like the case with cheap 600 bucks guitars... Would you pay 400 in abalone and 200 in wood or the oposite, or even better and spik the abalone all together.
You can get the same sound quality expending much much less. The premium due to looks is not worth it when is a compromise of internal components.
You can get a MXL 990 which uses the same components and get the same results.
A lower cost setup to compare since you choose milk carton kids:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaUrMkGz1Kc
And the thread where they talk about the capsule:
https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...ead.php?113623

The sm81 will capture more detail of the instrument, and you don't need to call them, since it wont develop noise over time. And better yet! Will expend 40% less, since there isn't any labor cost into making it look good with recicled parts.
Sounds like you've got it all figured out: the only mic that will make an acoustic guitar sound good live is a Shure SM81. So anyone who uses one is smart. Like you.

And anyone stupid enough to use an Edwina just isn't very smart. Unlike you.

And I don't care about audio quality. Which must be true because you are all-knowing.

Now that we've established that you're all-knowing and others posters who like Edwinas like me are morons, they might as well just cancel the entire Acoustic Guitar Forum and replace it with your recommendations, at which point the world will be a better and brighter place. Got it.
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