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  #16  
Old 05-24-2017, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by amyFB View Post
hey thanks for taking time to offer some ideas. I did youtube the ones i didn't know of:
  • Scamp - if the one from the disney movie, It's not speaking to me, but if it's a different song, please post a link.
  • Ain't Misbehaving - learned that years ago - it's current and active on my duo set list. Excellent example of what I like
  • Feeling Free - need a link please; search offers Cream "I feel free" (pass; not my style , but Belinda Carlisle does a really nice cover of this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPPIIA370eQ)
  • Greensleeves - sorry, it's a big yawn for me.
  • Three Steps To Joy - lovely instrumental; i'd probably never put in the time to please my self with the results; and i really want something with lyrics that could suit a harmonizing duo gig.
As I posted, the links are on my website. Scamp, Feeling Free, and Three Steps To Joy are my originals. All tabs are arranged as fingerstyle instrumentals, not as backups to vocals.
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  #17  
Old 05-24-2017, 01:37 PM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
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typcially, my ears are drawn to any song that puts these three chords in a row : (example in G, could be any key)

G, Gmaj7, G6

and then follows them with a diminished chord .
Nice. I'd never tried that before.
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  #18  
Old 05-24-2017, 01:47 PM
Wyllys Wyllys is offline
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Amy...

Since you've already done Ain't Misbehavin' you might want to try something that moves the same ay to start. Liza All the Clouds'll Roll Away was written by George Gershwin in '28 or '29, a year after Fats Waller wrote his take on the ascending changes.

Waller:

https://youtu.be/EtfXnwi_Njo


Gershwin:

https://youtu.be/R9dyWCZDvfg

Gershwin double-timed the changes and altered the bridge.

Here's a link to a fantastic piano tickler working the Gershwin:

https://youtu.be/nZlJA2JB2oI

A lot of what I put into my guitar arrangements come from the modulations I hear from piano pickers.
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Last edited by Wyllys; 05-24-2017 at 01:54 PM.
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  #19  
Old 05-24-2017, 01:59 PM
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Nice. I'd never tried that before.
Seems like a descending melody line on over a G chord (e.g. 3xx003 - 3xx002 -3xx000). I'd probably use G - Bm - C, but as always choices depend on the context.
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  #20  
Old 05-24-2017, 02:11 PM
Wyllys Wyllys is offline
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Seems like a descending melody line on over a G chord (e.g. 3xx003 - 3xx002 -3xx000). I'd probably use G - Bm - C, but as always choices depend on the context.
Since the subject line is triads and moveable forms, I'd say:

3 x 5 4 3 x

3 x 4 4 3 x

3 x 2 4 3 x

4 x 3 4 3 x

or

7 x 5 7 8 x

7 x 5 7 7 x

7 x 5 7 5 x

6 x 5 6 5 x

or...
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  #21  
Old 05-24-2017, 02:54 PM
mattbn73 mattbn73 is offline
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I geeked out real hard on triads about a year and 1/2 ago. I think they very easily can structure a framework for approaching solo guitar playing , whether it's arranging , playing by ear or from a chart.

I'm particularly interested in being able to play from a chart on-the-fly, the way pianists do from fake books etc. I honestly believe triads are probably the most solid basis for getting closer to that goal. Anyway, I started a blog on this, but kind of got distracted from doing it for a few months . Anyway, I appreciate anyone's thoughts. Still working on a lot of these concepts, but I have basic ideas for creating chord scales for each chord type etc.

Here's an example of playing something from a chart I have at church. Didn't really work out so much ahead, other than reading through loads of other tunes: https://youtu.be/N8whc17MZso

and rough blog beginnings: ....
http://chordsologuitar.com/

Last edited by mattbn73; 05-24-2017 at 03:00 PM.
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  #22  
Old 05-24-2017, 02:56 PM
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Where was not specified but it seems to be a descending melody line or base line rather than chord changes. Question would be if it is really necessary, or even appropriate, name out a new chord each time the melody moves on to a different note. It would be quite a mess notating that in a score.
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  #23  
Old 05-24-2017, 03:06 PM
amyFB amyFB is offline
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I geeked out real hard on triads about a year and 1/2 ago. I think they very easily can structure a framework for approaching solo guitar playing , whether it's arranging , playing by ear or from a chart.

.....
When I first was introduced to them, I dove in deep and spent hours over a few weeks getting the muscle memory installed for the three shapes, then, I spent the next chunk of time practicing all the various combinations of shapes for a I, IV, V progression. I did this until I could start to pick the particular shape I wanted BECAUSE I knew it contained the notes I wanted in the right stacked order.

From there, I started replaying all the songs I already knew, but forcing my self to use only the triads, and this was just to further reinforce the internal memorization and muscle memory of the sound of each shape.

When I wasn't immersed in memorization, I was sticking an inversion into my songs at various spots to add the variety in sound.

At one point i connected the idea of using the shape location as a marker for where to start playing when it was my turn to solo on a break. This turned the corner for my confidence in taking solo breaks because I'd start right in stead of wrong and have a better chance to keep going right.

I. Love. Triads.
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  #24  
Old 05-24-2017, 03:12 PM
amyFB amyFB is offline
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Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Where was not specified but it seems to be a descending melody line or base line rather than chord changes. Question would be if it is really necessary, or even appropriate, name out a new chord each time the melody moves on to a different note. It would be quite a mess notating that in a score.
My method is typically to play the chords and then find the melody under my fingers in the chord shape, or a fret away. Using triads helps me to find the chords that have the melody most easily found under my fingers.

In "it's been a long long time", I play the opening chords as:

32XX33 (working the G & B strings as part of the melody line)
3X44X3 ( melody one the same strings as above)
32X43X (i think that's the right finguring; working the D string for the melody)

and , correction, I follow it with a m6 not a dim:

23X33X (i think is right shape)
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  #25  
Old 05-24-2017, 03:27 PM
Wyllys Wyllys is offline
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My method is typically to play the chords and then find the melody under my fingers in the chord shape...
I play the melody note and find a way to support it with a bass note and a harmony/character/shading note. In the end I'm using chords, but they're derived from the sound I feel and the direction I want/need to go.

Everything serves the melody...
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  #26  
Old 05-24-2017, 03:32 PM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
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Originally Posted by mattbn73 View Post
Here's an example of playing something from a chart I have at church. Didn't really work out so much ahead, other than reading through loads of other tunes: https://youtu.be/N8whc17MZso

and rough blog beginnings: ....
I liked the piece a lot. Thank you for sharing.
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Last edited by SunnyDee; 05-24-2017 at 03:51 PM.
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  #27  
Old 05-24-2017, 04:29 PM
s0cks s0cks is offline
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What you are describing is, I think, similar to the reason I started. I realized I'd spent almost a year working on chords but was very weak in melody. I was also learning the whole fretboard, but, like many people, less comfortable with intervals crossing the B string. I decided to work intensively on the 3 treble strings. I did a scale thing that might be similar to what you are talking about (not sure).
How did you relate that to your melody playing?

I spent a solid few weeks on triads and voice leading. I could see the potential, but then I came to conclusion that I really needed to start just learning more songs, building a repertoire and (along the way) building my left/right hand technique (I was getting mighty bored of the songs I already knew).

I also found that moving between triads was cool, sounded good, but lacked melody, because the melody often separates itself from the triad. It seemed more useful to me to understand the intervals across all six strings for the chord of the moment, as limiting myself to 3 or 4 adjacent strings was... well... a limitation. Often I wanted a lower bass note, or even an open string involved.

Don't get me wrong, triads are freaking cool, and it's still been complementary to my fretboard knowledge but for fingerstyle solo arrangements I didn't see them quite as useful. They seem more useful as an accompaniment to other instruments/vocals or as a tool for soloing.

I'm probably totally wrong here, so please correct me!
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  #28  
Old 05-24-2017, 04:48 PM
Wyllys Wyllys is offline
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I spent a solid few weeks on triads and voice leading. I could see the potential, but then I came to conclusion that I really needed to start just learning more songs, building a repertoire and (along the way) building my left/right hand technique (I was getting mighty bored of the songs I already knew).
BINGO!!! Now you're working within a context, an ever-expanding context.

I find taking the songs I have down and putting them in other keys is also helpful. And it's no small thing to mention building LH/RH technique as so much of what you do with the fingers of the picking hand will be influencd or flat-out dictated by what the LH is doing.
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  #29  
Old 05-24-2017, 05:04 PM
s0cks s0cks is offline
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BINGO!!! Now you're working within a context, an ever-expanding context.

I find taking the songs I have down and putting them in other keys is also helpful. And it's no small thing to mention building LH/RH technique as so much of what you do with the fingers of the picking hand will be influencd or flat-out dictated by what the LH is doing.
Yeah, it seems like the best way to learn tbh. I tried the whole systematic practice approach, but there's just too much variation in everything we play that you can't really break it down into neat exercises that cover everything.

Just the other day I learnt a song with a very simple G > D7. Piece of piss right? But no song I currently knew had that particular chord change with the same fingering, so my muscle memory hit a brick wall. Of course, it didn't take very long to learn, but it highlighted to me that you just can't always learn every situation through exercises. Instead you just gotta start playing songs. Plus, it's more fun.
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  #30  
Old 05-24-2017, 05:39 PM
amyFB amyFB is offline
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How did you relate that to your melody playing?



I spent a solid few weeks on triads and voice leading. I could see the potential, but then I came to conclusion that I really needed to start just learning more songs, building a repertoire and (along the way) building my left/right hand technique (I was getting mighty bored of the songs I already knew).



I also found that moving between triads was cool, sounded good, but lacked melody, because the melody often separates itself from the triad. It seemed more useful to me to understand the intervals across all six strings for the chord of the moment, as limiting myself to 3 or 4 adjacent strings was... well... a limitation. Often I wanted a lower bass note, or even an open string involved.



Don't get me wrong, triads are freaking cool, and it's still been complementary to my fretboard knowledge but for fingerstyle solo arrangements I didn't see them quite as useful. They seem more useful as an accompaniment to other instruments/vocals or as a tool for soloing.



I'm probably totally wrong here, so please correct me!


For me, I think the magic beanstalk was way I made myself use triads in practice to play songs I already knew with more traditional chords. It led to my ability to intermix them at will in my arrangements, and even on the fly in a jam.

For sure they don't stand alone for a whole song, except in some exceptions , but what appeals to me the infinite nature of the variety they make possible in a way that is really accessible.

By really accessible, it is the moveable state of six simple shapes that. Move in predictable patterns even within their variable nature.

Ok that was wordy.



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