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Old 12-19-2015, 04:16 PM
Ship95 Ship95 is offline
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Default Help Choosing First Martin. PA and Retro Series bad??

Hi All,

I am purchasing my first high end acoustic. I expected to be a "Taylor Guy" based on the many artists I like who play them. I immediately homed in on the 814ce and 816ce, but then I picked up a Martin GPCPA1 Plus and I was blown away (before plugging in, mind you). It made me think the Taylors sounded just "ok" for $3500. I thought the GPCPA was a great answer to Taylor's Grand Auditorium shape/size, which is originally what I wanted, because I want a guitar that can reasonably cover all playing situations (to the extent possible, of course) and one that I can plug in when necessary without dealing with aftermarket pick ups.

When I came to this forum and others, I was surprised to find that a lot of Martin lovers don't consider the Performing Artist series to be "real" Martins. Many that do like them describe them as great plugged in, but as not having the true Martin sound acoustically. Is this a real issue or a matter of Martin purists just not thinking the PA's meet the purity test??

I tried a few Martin Dreadnoughts and OM's from the Standard Series, but the strings were old and the actions terrible, so the GPCPA1 blew away those "finer", more traditional acoustic instruments. What is lacking in the GPCPA1? Do people also find the Retro Series to be lacking, as well (I love the Fishman electronics in both series)? And what other Martins should so be considering for a "jack of all trades" kind of acoustic? I do plan to plug in, and I want the guitar to handle medium strength strumming, fingerpicking, and flatpicking, in that order. I'd also like it to be able to lead a band and do the singer-so writer thing.

Finally, I am open to suggestions other than Martin and Taylor! My problem is that my local Guitar Centers don't carry much high end gear anymore, and the little they do have isn't in great shape. To compare 2 guitars, I will likely have to buy both from the factory (via GC) and return one. I certainly can't afford 3, so I need to narrow it down.

All advice is greatly appreciated!! Thanks a ton!

Mike
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Old 12-19-2015, 06:19 PM
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Kupuna50 Kupuna50 is offline
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Default PA / Retro

Surprised at your comments about Martin Retro's being 'bad'!!
I own three - D-35, 00-15 and D-28.
With the Fishman Aura+, they are killer. Not just my thoughts, but of those for whom I've played. Both plugged and unplugged.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion....
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Old 12-19-2015, 07:35 PM
lroyb lroyb is offline
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I've had my GPCPA1 since 2010 and like all Martins it just seems to get better. I like the pickup flexibility for playing solo or with a band.


And the D18 Retro can hang unplugged and with a variety of plugged in situations.
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Old 12-19-2015, 07:36 PM
akafloyd akafloyd is offline
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Play everything you can and get the one that "speaks" to you, don't compromise. I lean away from factory installed electronics but if that's what works for you go for it.
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Old 12-19-2015, 07:49 PM
JJBoogie JJBoogie is offline
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To the OP,
Don't worry about what people think. Get what makes you perform and sound best. Get what inspires you. Obviously that is a process and can take time. Trial and error.

I tried the GPCPA1 at GC. It felt great and sounded really good but I am not a fan of Rosewood guitars that size. I had a Taylor 914 for a while and the sound plugged in drove me nuts.

I had a Gibson SJ with a fishman matrix pickup and it sounded incredible through a PA however the neck was a bit too thin for my taste.

I finally ordered a new Standard Martin D-18 after trying a kabillion guitars at GC. It blew away every thing I played there tone and feel wise. It just inspired me. It felt better to me than all the other more expensive and "nicer" Martins, Gibsons & Taylors. It wasn't that it's a better guitar than the others but that it was THE ONE that fit my ear and personal needs as a player. Of course now I have to see how it works with the pickup I get installed. :-)

Get the GPCPA1 and gig with it. If it ends up not being to your liking return it. Most places give you time to try it out.

Last edited by JJBoogie; 12-19-2015 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 12-19-2015, 07:56 PM
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Every retro model I've played,(and I played many from HD28's to 00018's), have been consistently wonderful unplugged imo, and I enjoyed a few image settings on the Aura, however, the UST sounded very quacky. I had my eye on an HD28e Retro for months, however, I ended up preferring the newer D18 with a Baggs M80 as I play for a living, it does a good job with a bit of tweaking and really shines when fingerpicked.

The only factory electronics that have been a pleasure to use on stage for me have been the upper end MIJ Taks CT series, notably the CT4BII which I also use in tandem to the D18.

The Retro appointments are very nice & there are some useful settings on the Aura. I spent a lot of time with it, but in the end for me I'd rather buy a standard Martin and add my own pickup. As far as the GPCPA series go, I played several variants and thought they were jus' nice unplugged, burst ones look lovely, but jus' not my cup o' joe.

Cheers,

eric
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Old 12-19-2015, 08:02 PM
duluthdan duluthdan is offline
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Ship - I have never considered a GPCPA1 to be anything other than a darn good Martin. Looking for a good all rounder? Martin D-18 or a Gibson J-45 would be my suggestions. Congrats on the new Martin !
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Old 12-19-2015, 08:13 PM
slimey slimey is offline
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All the people I know with retro's and GPCPA love em, I wouldn't worry about opinions too much, we can't even agree on picks let alone guitars.
Go with the ones that talk to you
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Old 12-19-2015, 09:04 PM
Coach Jim Coach Jim is offline
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I purchased an OM-28 Retro in 2013. I was looking for a smaller body guitar to compliment my 1968 D-18. I intended to to buy a 000-28 EC but couldn't find one that struck me. I played the OM-28 Retro, it was easy to play, had great tone and it just wowed me. Still, I was not looking for built in electronics, so I did not buy it at first look. After a week of constantly thinking of the tone and playability of the Retro, I went and purchased it. I know nothing about pick ups, preamps, pedals or amps. For 46 years I played acoustic only. When I played in public when I was young, we used microphones only. With the Retro, I could plug in and play at church and at open Mics without a Preamp and pedals to get the tone I expected. At my age, I am not worried about resale value. I have had the Retro for two years and the tone has only gotten better as the guitar ages and opens up. Every time I have played out, I get compliments on the Retro's tone and amplified sound. If you are looking for a Martin that has the tone of a standard Martin and the built in (currently) state of the art electronics with plug and play capability, the Retro is a great choice.
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Old 12-19-2015, 09:24 PM
Oldguy64 Oldguy64 is offline
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So let me get this straight....
YOU found a guitar that YOU like.
YOU plan to use YOUR money to buy it.
And you want OUR approval?

Man, your money, your ears and hands.
Buy the guitar and if anyone gives you flak...
Invite them to buy you something better.
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Old 12-19-2015, 10:03 PM
MaurysMusic MaurysMusic is offline
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Retro series is higher up the food chain than the PA series (because of the dovetail neck joint) but both certainly are real Martins.
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  #12  
Old 12-19-2015, 11:48 PM
kkfan kkfan is offline
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Default Help Choosing First Martin. PA and Retro Series bad??

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaurysMusic View Post
Retro series is higher up the food chain than the PA series (because of the dovetail neck joint) but both certainly are real Martins.

Does the type of neck joint affect the sound? If so, how?
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Old 12-20-2015, 01:07 AM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkfan View Post
Does the type of neck joint affect the sound? If so, how?
The neck joint won't affect the sound, but the bracing system used will. The bracing patterns are different on dovetail neck joint Martins and those with the mortice and tenon attachment system.

That said, I've played some great-sounding Performing Artist Martins that have blown away more expensive Martins when it comes to tone. Neck attachment systems and bracing patterns aside, it still comes down to how the individual top on any of these guitars works with the back and sides.

Short version: choose the guitar that sounds best to you. Bear in mind that there are lots of folks who spend time on Internet forums arguing over minutia, and this is a perfect example of that.

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller
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  #14  
Old 12-20-2015, 02:51 AM
Dolphin Siren Dolphin Siren is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade Hampton View Post
The neck joint won't affect the sound, but the bracing system used will.
Many luthiers, including the ones at Martin and Santa Cruz, would disagree with you there.
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Old 12-20-2015, 09:07 AM
TJNies TJNies is offline
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The OP should ultimately rely on his own ears and needs.

I had a GPCPA1 Plus. It was better-sounding than my 00016C, both acoustically and plugged in; so I bought it. Unfortunately, shortly after I tried a couple traditional Martins and realized I didn't care for the GPCPA1 anywhere near as much. I don't gig, so the electronics really didn't matter as much. So I sold it.

One idea not discussed is picking your guitar based on acoustic preference first, and if it doesn't have built-in electronics, just add an aftermarket system?
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