Vocal & guitar effects units live...

BluesCam · #1 10-11-2015, 10:48 AM

Hi everybody. I have not played "live" in about 20 yr. I notice that there are tons of new "boxes" on the market. Ones that add vocal harmonies and do pitch correction. Guitar pedals that do endless track looping etc.

I am planning to work solo and with a duo (bass added). I can't really get comfortable with the idea that there will suddenly be vocal harmonies when
I am the only vocalist. Maybe I'm a dinosaur or just "old school."

What are you folks doing live?

Thank you.

Bob

sam.spoons · #2 10-11-2015, 11:38 AM

I use a looper but not in a particularly creative way, just for the odd little bit of backing if I'm soloing and when I'm playing gypsy jazz (just learning

) I lay down a rhythm part and then I (or me and the bass player) solo over it. TC Ditto X2 is my main Looper (though I also have an original Ditto and a Boss RC30). I've dabbled with vocal harmony boxes but as the band and the duo I work in both have other singers I don't have a need just now. I have owned a TC VoiceLive I and 2 and a TC Harmony G and tested a Digitech. Used sparingly they can be very effective but non work very well tracking your guitar unless you either play a little ahead of the beat or sing a little behind. I'll probably buy a TC Harmony Singer soon as they're cheap, simple, the reverbs are nice and they give a couple of extra harmonies (or I might just buy a TC Mic Mechanic which does good, unobtrusive, things with vocals).

Marty C · #3 10-11-2015, 01:38 PM

Tc helicon play acoustic does both guitar effects and vocal effects. not too hard too use. Helps me and my old man voice.

mtm · #4 10-12-2015, 09:33 AM

I'm a fan of the TC VoiceLive 3, have been using it regularly for over a year now. In my opinion, its main strength is that it enhances your sound dramatically when playing under not so perfect conditions (having to use a subpar house PA, having to mix from stage, i.e., no sound tech available, etc.). As for the vocals, you simply have to route your signal through the unit and it will sound much better right away (doing some EQ/compression/whatever magic) without you having to adjust anything. Regarding the guitar, it's a bit more tweaking, but it essentially provides everything you get from a sophisticated preamp or stage DI plus lots of (good sounding) effects like delay, etc.

I do not really use the vocal harmony feature. From a technical point of view, I'm impressed by how accurate and immediate the harmonies are created in the newer units such as the VoiceLive 3, but I simply do not like having too much artificial elements in my live playing. Actually the only use case I have for those is to very subtly add another harmony voice to an existing (i.e., real) multi-part harmony, thus just thickening the sound unnoticable to the average listener.

Irish Pennant · #5 10-12-2015, 12:08 PM

I tried the Play Acoustic but it seemed to be tailored more for the singer and I'm not a singer. All the vocal effects did for me was to make a toad sound like a jackass.

For solo, I now use a Ditto 2x looper and a Zoom A3 pedal. When I loop, I'll loop a rhythm and play a melody over it. I do this with about a quarter of the songs I perform.

The A3 pedal is growing on me. I use it primarily to dial in a nice plugged in acoustic guitar sound.

The A3 and the Ditto both have the option to run on batteries. I use that feature when I play open mics.

Davis Webb · #6 10-12-2015, 12:15 PM

I use the Boss VE20, which delivers a professional sound in any venue. And the venues I play in are quite varied. I use the harmony feature on some songs but more for a specific effect. Mostly I love the reverb, processing, touch of delay. Pitch correction can work wonders too, it won't do a thing if you cannot sing at all, but if you have a serviceable voice and want to make sure you are hitting the right notes, it can go a long way. This is helpful when you cannot, for the life of you, hear your monitor. I have no idea what I sound like in most venues. This unit gives me some peace of mind. Audiences love it.

Goat Mick · #7 10-13-2015, 05:45 AM

I've been using the Digitech VL3 for a couple of years now and I love it. The vocal eq ability within the box is awesome and the sound it sends to the board is almost impossible for a sound guy to screw up. I use a very subtle amount of harmony mainly just to make a chorus sound a bit bigger.

dominant7th · #8 10-13-2015, 06:19 AM

I have messed about with several TC vocal pedals and settled on the mic mechanic without any harmony features.

I think the addition of machine generated harmony is in fact a good idea, but many, including myself, are probably not ready to accept it's use just yet. Of course this is odd given the fact that we think nothing of adding reverb (fake room or hall sound) or any other guitar effects.

The other matter to consider with pedals is the practice needed in order to operate them smoothly in a live setting. I have a looper but have never really felt confident enough to use it live.

I say go for a harmony pedal and then see if it suits your intentions. As others have mentioned you can use harmony pedals in a very subtle way to lift vocals in choruses etc.

SalFromChatham · #9 10-13-2015, 07:15 AM

I use a Fishman Aura Spectrum to help quiet down the quack, and I have a TC Harmony pedal. I dont use that pedal when I play live with my friend; its on the board for when I line up a few solo shows for myself... I also have a small TC Sound Rez pedal but I dont engage it, as I like what I am getting from the Fishman.

JStotes · #10 10-13-2015, 07:40 AM

I'm an old school type I guess. I don't like any of the effects units used with acoustic instruments. I do occasionally use a touch of the reverb that is on my Schertler JAM 150 but that's it.

I have heard several performers that use a variety of pedals and gizmos and I think they all sound phony. I think a good looper pedal can be interesting if used sparingly. But that would be very sparingly.

BluesCam · #11 10-16-2015, 10:28 AM

I guess I'm old school, too. But, I'm open minded. I will check out some of the devices you folks have mentioned by watching some Youtube demos.

Thanks to everyone for your info.

Bob

slewis · #12 10-17-2015, 10:24 PM

I don't think it's a matter of old-school or not; I play solo a lot and use a looper and some guitar effects, but as for some computer chip generating harmonies for me, no way. Plenty of audiences won't mind a computer singing along with you, but I don't consider that to be live music, so I don't do it. Nor do I use pre-recorded loops or synth tracks or drum machines or any of that. I frankly can't believe that people listen to that or at least consider it to be live music. I also don't think anyone who has the basic talent to play and sing adequately needs a machine to play along with them in a performance context; in fact I'd never be in their audience. But that's just me.

Davis Webb · #13 10-17-2015, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slewis

I don't think it's a matter of old-school or not; I play solo a lot and use a looper and some guitar effects, but as for some computer chip generating harmonies for me, no way. Plenty of audiences won't mind a computer singing along with you, but I don't consider that to be live music, so I don't do it. Nor do I use pre-recorded loops or synth tracks or drum machines or any of that. I frankly can't believe that people listen to that or at least consider it to be live music. I also don't think anyone who has the basic talent to play and sing adequately needs a machine to play along with them in a performance context; in fact I'd never be in their audience. But that's just me.

Tonight I used my vocal harmony to do some acapella Stan Rogers numbers and folks loved it. They noticeably said "what the?" when it started, then looked at me hitting the unit on the floor at the chorus and then just applauded. In its right place vocal doubling and the odd harmony are nice. Just like using cayenne pepper....know when to use it and how much.

Marty C · #14 10-18-2015, 06:45 AM

I have the TC Helicon Play Acoustic and rarely use the harmonies. I grew up hearing great 3 part since my mother sang in a trio. My mom (late 70's) loves to hear the harmony on the Play Acoustic. My wife hates it. She says it sounds too "Canned". I agree Davis, a little goes a long way.

I mainly use the Play Acoustic to add some small vocal effects, just to thicken my voice a little. I wouldn't sing without it. It makes a huge difference for my voice.

For a Heathly double check, I often plug in my IPhone out from the mixer and record the end result and play it back through the PA during sound check. Often what I hear through in-ear monitors or a floor monitor is not what the audience hears through mains. By recording and playing back I can hear how "canned" everything sounds.

Important things I found about using harmonies. You really need to go to a mixer with "stereo out" of the play Acosutic and feed the stereo to two channels on the board. Pan each left and right. One part of the harmony will come out the left speaker and the other part out the right. It places you in the middle. This creates the most natural sound. You must be in an environment where the audience can clearly hear both speakers well.

The other part is the guitar must be in perfect tune and you must sing on key. Otherwise, it does sound really "canned".

Lastly, you have got to be able to hear yourself through a monitor really well. You have to be careful with mic control. If I can't hear myself well in the venue I am playing in, I will not use the harmony or eliminate the song from my set list for that set.

slewis · #15 10-18-2015, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davis Webb

Tonight I used my vocal harmony to do some acapella Stan Rogers numbers and folks loved it. They noticeably said "what the?" when it started, then looked at me hitting the unit on the floor at the chorus and then just applauded. In its right place vocal doubling and the odd harmony are nice. Just like using cayenne pepper....know when to use it and how much.

An audience applauding a button being pressed and a machine generating the resulting music they hear makes my point exactly, Davis! I just prefer to use real pepper. And I'm sure you'd have done quite well with them hearing just your voice and just your guitar. I guess my next question would be, then, will you also be adding a little drum machine here, and a little backing synth tracks there. They'd love that too, I bet! Just my two cents' worth, and we all know two cents ain't worth much....