What feedback resistant and acoustic sounding pickup to choose?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I can't remember where but on the website he does discuss the impact the pickup will have on the unplugged tone of the acoustic. I think it might be near the bottom of the page when you click on "acoustic guitar pickups". I am not sure why he left it out of the FAQ section. Anyway, he says there's no degradation with regards to the unplugged tone but that's easy enough to say.

I might email Rich and ask if he has done a direct comparison between his pickup and a normal saddle on the same guitar. I also might email some users and see what their thoughts are.

probably worth another thread, but I recorded my guitar right before I put the Barbera in, specifically for this purpose, but then never got around to doing the "after" recording. I just did it tonight. It's been a few months since I installed the pickup, so lots may have changed. I may have moved the mics, my nails may be a different length, no idea about the age of the strings, so on and so forth. And of course it's two different performances, months apart. So this isn't terribly scientific, but for what it's worth, this is a "bone vs Barbara" comparison. The bone is first

[guitaniac]

Thanks for the demo, Doug. I like the Barbera sample a little better, although I'm not sure if that's because of the saddle material or some other factor(s).

FWIW, I clearly recall liking my Taylor 314c's acoustic sustain and tone better during a period when I removed the UST system (B-Band at time, if I recall correctly) to experiment with the combination of a MiSi Mag and a gooseneck mic. That guitar always had a TUSQ saddle, if that's relevant also.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

probably worth another thread, but I recorded my guitar right before I put the Barbera in, specifically for this purpose, but then never got around to doing the "after" recording. I just did it tonight. It's been a few months since I installed the pickup, so lots may have changed. I may have moved the mics, my nails may be a different length, no idea about the age of the strings, so on and so forth. And of course it's two different performances, months apart. So this isn't terribly scientific, but for what it's worth, this is a "bone vs Barbara" comparison. The bone is first

Thank you for the clip, that helps out a lot! Obviously there are factors at play that could have altered the tone between the two clips. However, it does at least show that the Barbera does not degrade the projection or tone all that much. IMO the bone sounds brighter with a bit better projection and maybe a tad more bass. The Barbera is very close but seems to have a smoother top end. I think that's the thing I notice the most; the Barbera makes the guitar sound a bit darker. The projection and bass difference is debatable though as I really have to listen for it and I cannot say with certainty that I hear a difference for sure.

With that said, there are aspects that I like with each clip. However, what appeals to me is the smooth top end as my Taylor is a tad too bright. I have wanted to upgrade my tusq saddle to bone in order to increase some projection and hopefully a bit of bass. The problem with bone is that it also enhances the high end which I don't really want with my Taylor. If the Barbera acts like bone in that it gives a bit more projection than tusq but with a smoother top end then it might actually be a good addition to my guitar.

By the way, did you have to sand down the Barbera pickup all that much when you first installed it? I am not sure if Rich has a return policy but it would be great if I could order one, install it and see how I like the plugged in and unplugged tone before committing to it fully. I just feel as though the action will be very high, until I modify the pickup height.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

T
By the way, did you have to sand down the Barbera pickup all that much when you first installed it? I am not sure if Rich has a return policy but it would be great if I could order one, install it and see how I like the plugged in and unplugged tone before committing to it fully. I just feel as though the action will be very high, until I modify the pickup height.

I'm not sure you can sand down the saddle. Rich recommends getting one that's a tad lower than what you need and shimming to taste.

My impression, as I mentioned before, is that there is a tonal change, but that's not surprising, nor good/bad. Even two different bone saddles will probably sound different due to density changes, and the change from the Barbera is in that same range. Not enough to worry about.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I'm not sure you can sand down the saddle. Rich recommends getting one that's a tad lower than what you need and shimming to taste.

My impression, as I mentioned before, is that there is a tonal change, but that's not surprising, nor good/bad. Even two different bone saddles will probably sound different due to density changes, and the change from the Barbera is in that same range. Not enough to worry about.

I was under the impression that the Barbera saddle could be sanded down. I am not really sure where I heard that but you are probably right. I can't see the pickup responding well to being sanded.

It's a good point about the tonal change. I am liking the plugged in tone enough that I need to try this pickup. If it makes my guitar sound a bit darker unplugged then that's not a bad thing, it's just a different flavour. It's probably so subtle that I won't even notice it anyway.

[Doug Young]

The pickup element itself appears to be at the top, and way the wire comes out, you may have some room to sand it down, but I'd certainly talk to Rich about it before you try. Unfortunately, the info on the site seems to focus more on other instrument pickups and detail on the guitar pickup is a bit more scarce.

[SpruceTop]

Maybe Barbera can custom adjust a new Soloist pickup to the same saddle height as the saddle currently in a guitar if it's send to them? I dislike using shims to adjust saddle-height, and if they'll do this at least the Barbera Soloist saddle will be a good height for awhile until the guitar needs a neck reset. If Barbera would custom adjust their pickup height to a current saddle, it would mean that the guitar would be out of service for two or three weeks unless an alternate one is on-hand. Then again, shimming from the get-go may be the best way to go if the saddle needs to be lowered as the neck-angle changes before a neck-reset is needed?

[guitaniac]

FWIW, Spruce Top, I've had good luck with supergluing Bob Colosi's ebony shims (from his shim set) to saddle bottoms. It does take a lot of patient work to sand the shim (with saddle attached) down to the proper height.

I was under the (apparently incorrect) impression that Rich Barbera custom made each Soloist saddle to the exact size of the saddle which the customer sends him. It would be interesting to know if some customers are indeed shimming their Soloist saddles. I've seen zero comments (from Soloist users) about shimming the Soloist saddle.

[Doug Young]

Here's what I got from Rich in an email exchange before I got mine. Seems fine to share. He doesn't say the saddles *can't* be sanded, so maybe that's an option.

For steel string guitar Soloist saddles are 1/8" compensated saddles
made in 3 stock heights, low, medium and tall.

The simplest (and recommended) method of setting up a Soloist saddle
is to order a stock height lower than your existing saddle and
shimming the lower height Soloist saddle up as needed. This also makes
it easy to make any further tweeks to the setup as needed.
(make a height measurement of your existing saddle at the E strings,
include any existing under saddle pickup or shim in the measurement)

The stock 6 string steel string saddle heights are;

Low E Hi E
Low - .250 .190
Med - .310 .250
Tall- .350 .310

There are two general string spacing formats measuring from Low E to
Hi E - standard 2 1/8"-(good up up to apx. 2.3/16") and wide string
spacing format 2 1/4" (good up to up to apx 2.375").

[guitaniac]

Thanks, Doug. That's very helpful information.

I'm thinking that I'd probably need professional help to "fine tune" this saddle. With that lead coming out of the bottom of the saddle, one can't just glue on a shim and sand it down to the right height.

And of course, professional expertise is most helpful in shaping the top of the saddle, as hand compensated saddles have always worked best for me. I wonder to what extent the Soloist saddle can be hand compensated.

[Doug Young]

I'd check with Rich, no idea. The Barbera does appear to be fully compensated, it's not just the B string. But whether it's right for you, who knows. I just dropped it in and it worked very well for me

[Petty1818]

I am also not a fan of adding shims to the saddle. I think I would be more inclined to purchase a saddle that's a bit higher than my current saddle. However, I will obviously only do this if sanding down the bottom of the Barbera is possible. I don't really worry about neck re-sets and saddle height though. My current guitar has had the same saddle height for close to eight years.

[Dirty Bill]

Originally Posted by smurph1

I just bought a Martin 000-17SM and I want to use it at a open mic I like to go to. Because of the small area, and the "live" environment, (lots of hard floors and walls) I opted to get a LR Baggs magnetic pickup for it. Hopefully it will be more feedback resistant and still sound alright. I don't need to have a pristine acoustic tone. I really just need to be heard in what can be a really noisy environment.

West by God Virginia. Me too.... where abouts ya hang yer hat?

[Marek]

Hi,

I've just read whole "best pikcup" thread - as always it's interesting to read feedback from guys that tried so many of them
Someone may think that all have been told already, but from time to time new hope arise together with new products - i.e. mentioned Barbera Soloist.
Browsing Mi-Si webpage I've noticed new pickup - Motif "A Condenser Under-Saddle Pickup".
It looks very interesting, curious if anyone tried it already?

Cheers,
Marek.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Marek

Hi,

I've just read whole "best pikcup" thread - as always it's interesting to read feedback from guys that tried so many of them
Someone may think that all have been told already, but from time to time new hope arise together with new products - i.e. mentioned Barbera Soloist.
Browsing Mi-Si webpage I've noticed new pickup - Motif "A Condenser Under-Saddle Pickup".
It looks very interesting, curious if anyone tried it already?

Cheers,
Marek.

Thanks for the heads-up, Marek. I haven't tried it, but the pic of the transducer is intriguing. There appears to be six sets of seven little "sensing elements" (according to the installation guide) on the transducer strip. They are positioned so that each set of elements will be under a string. There's a bit of space between the sets of elements, so I suspect the pickup might provide a bit more string separation than one continuous film transducer strip.

In any event, it certainly would be nice if this particular innovation actually does succeed at "eliminating the harsh characteristics of more typical piezo-electric technology" (as the description claims). Time will tell, with the help of some adventuresome users.


FWIW, I've tried both a Mi-Si Acoustic Duo Mag and the Mi-Si Acoustic Trio UST in past years. The battery-free technology is indeed cool, although I didn't think the pickups themselves were the very best (of the ones that I'd tried) for their particular pickup types (mag and UST). On the plus side, Mi-Si's main engineering guy (Mikal, if I recall correctly) was very helpful and responsive to questions.