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  #16  
Old 12-13-2017, 11:45 AM
Dirk Hofman Dirk Hofman is offline
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This is a pretty interesting article on it.

http://www.ibtimes.com/how-bitcoin-h...scheme-2627403

The real innovation here is blockchain, which stands to transform all manner of transactions into a de-centralized, transparent ledger model which isn't controlled by any one entity. It makes a currency or any other digital asset nearly impossible to hack, or rather it keeps any potential hack from being remotely useful, or worth the time to execute since there is no single point of failure. The ledgers are copied and updated across thousands of instances. Well worth reading up on it, it will permeate many of our transactions in the future. One of the most important technologies to arrive in years.

https://blockgeeks.com/guides/what-i...in-technology/

Here's a TED talk on it. Worth listening to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RplnSVTzvnU
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  #17  
Old 12-13-2017, 12:01 PM
amyFB amyFB is offline
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Last week, when Bloomberg radio discussed the new trading markets for crypto currencies , they compared it to the futures market.

Futures are a way to speculate on the price of something tomorrow or next week or next year. You bet on the rise or fall and make your money accordingly.

My personal feeling is that there is something very wrong about making money on falling value. I can't say better than that, and maybe I'm lacking some critical information on the matter that would alter my feelings.

For now, I'm sticking with my original opinion (back a few posts) that this is a bunch of smoke and mirrors stuff. IF I were in possession of any crypto-currency at this moment in time, I think I would try to convert it to cash asap and count myself lucky in time.
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  #18  
Old 12-13-2017, 12:23 PM
buddyhu buddyhu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman View Post
This is a pretty interesting article on it.

http://www.ibtimes.com/how-bitcoin-h...scheme-2627403

The real innovation here is blockchain, which stands to transform all manner of transactions into a de-centralized, transparent ledger model which isn't controlled by any one entity. It makes a currency or any other digital asset nearly impossible to hack, or rather it keeps any potential hack from being remotely useful, or worth the time to execute since there is no single point of failure. The ledgers are copied and updated across thousands of instances. Well worth reading up on it, it will permeate many of our transactions in the future. One of the most important technologies to arrive in years.

https://blockgeeks.com/guides/what-i...in-technology/

Here's a TED talk on it. Worth listening to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RplnSVTzvnU
I think this post is on the right track: blockchain technology is interesting to MANY of those "in the know". Bitcoin, as a single manifestation of the application of the technology, meets with much (IMO deserved) skepticism.

That being said, I made a $200 bet, buying a fraction of a Bitcoin. But I don't consider it an investment, or even a speculation. For it to be an investment or speculation, I would have to have some idea (or at least a theory) about what types of information or business climates caused price movements); with Bitcoin, I don't have any idea why it's price is changing, let alone why it changes as much as it does.

My Bitcoin bet is more like the way I felt when I went to Vegas in my youth: I was interested in hitting a jackpot, but I gave myself a $50 loss limit. I never hit a meaningful jackpot, and most of the time, I'd get bored before I lost the $50. And one time, I caught myself taking stupid risks, almost acting as if I HAD to lose the $50 before I could stop playing. I haven't been gambling since then...until I bought my fraction of a Bitcoin a few weeks ago. We will see what happens; if nothing else, I am having all the "fun" of a Vegas weekend without getting on a plane (just need to find a good buffet somewhere).

If one wants to actually "invest" in the promise of blockchain technology, it makes more sense to invest in large companies that are spending money on exploring and/or developing the technology and its implications.
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  #19  
Old 12-13-2017, 12:42 PM
robj144 robj144 is offline
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Not to be mean, but the people in this thread calling it a fraud or Ponzi scheme I'm betting have no real clue what crypocurrencies are in reality.

I'm 99% confident that in a few years everyone responding in this thread will be using blockchain in some form or another. These currencies will have intrinsic value at some time.

Yes, they're in a bubble now, but don't dismiss them entirely.
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  #20  
Old 12-13-2017, 01:15 PM
Rip VanWinkle Rip VanWinkle is offline
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Andrew Lett, the famous or infamous short seller from Citron Research was on CNBC last week and made a very interesting point. He predicted what would ultimately kill Bitcoin was "What if I could own 4,000 shares of Apple using block chain technology. Why do I need Bitcoin?" It's only a hypothetical at this point, but never the less, the idea is quite sound. If I can own tangible assets that trade in a regulated marketplace based on solid fundamentals using the de-centralized technology of block chain, who needs Bitcoin? Unless you are an arms dealer, ransom hacker, drug dealer or North Korea.
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  #21  
Old 12-13-2017, 01:41 PM
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  #22  
Old 12-13-2017, 01:42 PM
1neeto 1neeto is offline
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Default Crypto Currencies

Quote:
Originally Posted by robj144 View Post
Not to be mean, but the people in this thread calling it a fraud or Ponzi scheme I'm betting have no real clue what crypocurrencies are in reality.



I'm 99% confident that in a few years everyone responding in this thread will be using blockchain in some form or another. These currencies will have intrinsic value at some time.



Yes, they're in a bubble now, but don't dismiss them entirely.


Well if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck...

I rather invest in something more liquid and predictable like real estate. But then again, that’s something I know. I admit to be somewhat ignorant about crypto currencies but from what I’ve seen, I’m a few years too late. It looks way too much like a bubble right now.
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  #23  
Old 12-13-2017, 02:22 PM
robj144 robj144 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1neeto View Post
Well if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck...

I rather invest in something more liquid and predictable like real estate. But then again, that’s something I know. I admit to be somewhat ignorant about crypto currencies but from what I’ve seen, I’m a few years too late. It looks way too much like a bubble right now.
Crypto is far more liquid than real estate. Also, real estate can bubble. It happened 10 years ago and it's starting to happen again.
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  #24  
Old 12-13-2017, 02:50 PM
Dirk Hofman Dirk Hofman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1neeto View Post
Well if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck...

I rather invest in something more liquid and predictable like real estate. But then again, that’s something I know. I admit to be somewhat ignorant about crypto currencies but from what I’ve seen, I’m a few years too late. It looks way too much like a bubble right now.
There are scores of smaller currencies which might grow big...which was the case for bitcoin some years back. Getting into bitcoin now does seem potentially dangerous.
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  #25  
Old 12-13-2017, 03:13 PM
LarryVe LarryVe is offline
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The value in crypto currencies is that right now there is no regulatory entity other than the blockchain technology used to mine the coins. That's where it's value is in my opinion.

...With crypto currencies this will be a bit harder to do since mining a coin will depend on how long it takes to solve whatever algorithm is used to mine the coins.

Last edited by Kerbie; 12-15-2017 at 09:40 PM. Reason: Removed politics
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  #26  
Old 12-13-2017, 03:37 PM
1neeto 1neeto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robj144 View Post
Crypto is far more liquid than real estate. Also, real estate can bubble. It happened 10 years ago and it's starting to happen again.


Real estate market is pretty stable. Near at peak but stable nonetheless. 2008 won’t happen again, there’s many safeguards in place now to avoid what happened. And even if it crashes, you can see it coming (if you know where/how to look) and adjust your investing strategy. Many smart investors kept making money when it crashed.
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  #27  
Old 12-14-2017, 05:38 AM
Murphy Slaw Murphy Slaw is offline
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And real estate is, well, you know.

REAL.
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  #28  
Old 12-14-2017, 08:43 AM
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I and a buddy recently invested in a couple different crypto currencies. Super volatile market. He doubled the money in less than a week and sold but it could go either way. Later during the day he sold, it dropped 18%. It's a gamble.

Apparently for around 5000 USD you can buy a machine and power it for 1 year that is specifically designed to mine bitcoins. It should create 1 coin in the 1st year (value last I checked was ~17k USD). Again, it's a gamble.
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  #29  
Old 12-14-2017, 10:19 AM
buddyhu buddyhu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H2O View Post
I and a buddy recently invested in a couple different crypto currencies. Super volatile market. He doubled the money in less than a week and sold but it could go either way. Later during the day he sold, it dropped 18%. It's a gamble.

Apparently for around 5000 USD you can buy a machine and power it for 1 year that is specifically designed to mine bitcoins. It should create 1 coin in the 1st year (value last I checked was ~17k USD). Again, it's a gamble.
I've read about those. I think they see for $400 on up to a couple of thousand. Kind of makes you wonder why someone would sell a machine rather than just use the machine, yes?

Reminds me of the things I learned in school about the California Gold Rush of 1849: Many thousands of people came to the state hoping to strike gold and be rich....and a few did. But many more got rich by selling stuff to the miners, like Levi's and gold pans and pack mules and hydraulic pumps, etc. etc.
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  #30  
Old 12-14-2017, 10:48 AM
Dirk Hofman Dirk Hofman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy Slaw View Post
And real estate is, well, you know.

REAL.
Crypto currency is real. It is a representation of value. It simply uses a mechanism other than an intermediary like a bank or nation-state to transfer the value.
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