How do you justify the cost?

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by Mikeleric

In March of this year I started taking classical guitar lessons once a week from a guy who teaches at a small guitar store. I am not a professional musician, I work as a librarian for a living. My guitar is a Washburn c5ce classical guitar which only cost me $150 + $80 for the case + tax. It has a cutaway. Otherwise it has the "standard" dimensions of a classical guitar. I had the guitar repair guy at the store put end pins put on my guitar and I practice standing with a guitar strap but I sit most of the time I am with the teacher. Otherwise I play the way I am taught or the way you are "supposed to" play classical or classical style.

Before I consider buying a higher end guitar I would have to really justify the expense. How would I justify buying another guitar when what I have "does the job ok"? How do you avoid feeling so guilty about yourself for spending more money than necessary on something you "don't really need"?

I can hear that notes played low on the neck are out of tune compared to the same notes played higher on the neck. The action may be too high even considering that the action is supposed to be rather high at the 12th fret. Part of the bridge or saddle that the strings rest on is not lined up right with the part under it. The case is warped and part of the padding onside of it is peeling away. But I haven't decided whether I should care about any of this yet.

If the only difference between the low and high end classical guitars were the tone, and if notions about what is good and bad tone are arbitrary, then in theory why wouldn't you just declare that the tone of the low end guitars is ideal while the tone of the high end guitars is what is inferior? Yes my questions are silly but I feel I need to really justify the expense before I consider trying other guitars.

Simply this... Play a variety of guitars. If you hear the difference between a 5 and a 1 thousand dollar guitar, then you can justify the cost if the 5k guitar is (and should be, but will not always be) better.

[rick-slo]

$8,638 a year for car insurance! That would be my main concern right there.

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by Mikeleric

I make as much money as one can expect to make after working as a librarian for two years, but when car insurance goes up to $4,319 every 6 months and you have more debt than school cost you think five times before you buy anything, although I make my payments and still manage to buy what I need or "need".

My guitar teacher didn't say anything about my guitar until I asked whether the strings are too far away from the fretboard. He said that, yeah, they could be a little lower but for now it won't make that much difference.

It is hardly worth it to pay $50 to set up a guitar that only cost $150. I started on a Gibson j50 steel stringed guitar which my dad's parents bought him when he was 13, it cost my grandparents $175 in 1962 but you have to account for inflation... but he let me have it because he had lost interest in playing but I did research and tried out some classical guitars and decided that my dad's guitar was inadequate for my "need", the highest two strings on the steel stringed guitar were too rough on my fingers and I am not aware that the classical guitar's neck is too wide. In fact now I think the steel stringed guitar's neck is too skinny and it night not have enough space between the strings. I played clarinet a little in school band as a kid and I did research and found out that my clarinet, the same model, new, in a music store, as of May, costs $1,299 or $1,300 + tax. I practice guitar almost everyday (the exact amount and of time I practice varies but I always fit in time to play, I don't have kids or cable TV), I was planning to play indefinitely.

1) Holy cow!!! That is expensive car insurance. Do you live in a location with public transit?? Do you really need a car?? I could buy a new 2nd hand car every year and throw it away for the price you pay for insurance. My car insurance is 500 bucks a year for me and my wife.

2) Pretty close to all factory guitars are not sold completed. Many stores (and the stores with good service) will do a basic setup before selling the guitar. Your guitar likely has nut slots that are way too high, and this affects intonation and comfort of playing especially in the lower positions. The barre on 1st fret is near impossible with nut slots too high. Proper setup and maintenance cost the same on any guitar, regardless of the cost or quality of the guitar. This is just part of the cost of ownership. If it needs its nut slots cut, get them cut and you'll be doing yourself a favour.

[riffmeister]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

$8,638 a year for car insurance! That would be my main concern right there.

Yes, work on that first. Then worry about what constitutes an expensive guitar and how to justify it.

[Mikeleric]

Originally Posted by Bax Burgess

For my own edification, would you please restate that another way?

Imagine the top of the guitar, the panel with the hole, in facing you, and the strings and neck are vertical. At the end of the strings on the body, the strings rest on this piece of plastic which might be called the bridge or saddle nut. The bridge is glued into a notch in another piece of plastic which might be called the bridge. The bridge is about 1/16 inches or more too far to the left compared to the notch. I don't think the misalignment is enough to make the guitar blatantly defective, and by definition every guitar under a certain price probably has one or more problem or defect.

[Mikeleric]

Originally Posted by riffmeister

Yes, work on that first. Then worry about what constitutes an expensive guitar and how to justify it.

In retail everybody pays the same price for the same products. Insurance is not at all like retail. For at least the next three years, nobody will give me insurance for less. In south east Michigan if you want to go to events and activities outside home and live well you need a car.

[riffmeister]

Originally Posted by Mikeleric

In retail everybody pays the same price for the same products. Insurance is not at all like retail. For at least the next three years, nobody will give me insurance for less. In south east Michigan if you want to go to events and activities outside home and live well you need a car.

Sorry to hear that. Raman noodles and inexpensive guitars for you for a while until your financial situation improves. If it makes you feel any better, I played a student model classical guitar for about 25 years before upgrading.

[Dave T]

Originally Posted by Mikeleric

For at least the next three years, nobody will give me insurance for less.

Sounds like you need to work on your driving skills instead of worrying about how we justify the guitars we own.

Just sayin',
Dave

[dosland]

Originally Posted by Dave T

Sounds like you need to work on your driving skills instead of worrying about how we justify the guitars we own.

Just sayin',
Dave

Wow, quite unhelpful. If you're feeling defensive about how much YOU spend on your instruments, that's your business. The OP is trying to find out whether it would be worth upgrading a guitar, not asking for life lessons from random anonymous guitar forum "experts." I'll venture a bet that you'd feel a bit of a heel if you knew a bit more about the OP's situation.

Just sayin.

As to the original question, in your situation I don't think I'd strain too hard financially to upgrade the guitar at present. You might be able to pull a solid instrument out of somewhere for around $300, and you'd probably notice a minor improvement in the playing experience, but you'd get pretty much the same thing from a decent setup job on the current guitar. If it's getting to where you simply don't enjoy playing the guitar you have, then it really is time to start shopping around. Get your hands on as many lower end instruments as you can and see what you like and whether you notice a dramatic improvement. Then save up that cash and buy the one you need. Don't look at it as an investment, though, stuff happens. Look at it as a chance to play a better guitar and really increase the enjoyment factor.

[Slinky]

Man! I can't get over the $8000 a year for insurance. Wow! I have full coverage and pay less than $1000. Sorry man! Keep your chin up.

[ukejon]

The problem with a faulty guitar is that it will likely dissuade you from playing and learning, and serve as a real detriment to your progress. So whether you get your current guitar set up more properly or buy a slightly better guitar is essential. No guilt for that....

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by ukejon

The problem with a faulty guitar is that it will likely dissuade you from playing and learning, and serve as a real detriment to your progress. So whether you get your current guitar set up more properly or buy a slightly better guitar is essential. No guilt for that....

I agree. You can justify the expense when the tool you are using makes it difficult to learn the skill you desire. Beyond that, you don't have to spend a ton to get a decent playing guitar. $250 to $300 new would be an entry level budget. You can spend less on the used market, but you should be better informed first. Plenty of crummy used guitars out there.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Dave T]

Originally Posted by dosland

Wow, quite unhelpful. If you're feeling defensive about how much YOU spend on your instruments, that's your business.

Wow, quite missing the point. Neither I nor anyone else need to justify what we spend on our guitars. No defensiveness about it. Each of us has unique circumstances and experiences that lead us to the decisions we make in purchasing guitars.

The OP asked us how we justify the cost of better guitars. Then he tells us he spends over $8000 a year on car insurance. In most every case that kind of cost is because of a history of accidents or violations (like speeding for example). That probably has more to do with the OP's problem than how we justify what we spend on guitars.

Dave

Originally Posted by Earwitness

It absolutely can be worth paying $50 to set up a $150 guitar. A lot of what makes a guitar a $150 guitar in the first place is that no one has sat down and worked with it specifically to make it playable. I bought a $150 guitar (used) for a nephew, and spend $80 (or something) on a set up and new saddle, and it definitely was worth more than when I started, especially to the one who has to be pushing those strings down.

Well stated. In some cases it might be worth spending $150 to setup a $150 instrument. With an instrument that's hard to play just due to minor setup issues, you're already in the hole. The $50 setup that enables you to take better advantage of the ongoing lesson expense is a bargain at three times the price.

Justification - The money I spend on guitars is the money I did not spend on an unnecessarily large house, boats, motorcycles, liquor, cigarettes, and cable TV. I can give you more but that ought to get you started.

Oh, and if you've shopped carefully, most of what you spend on a guitar can be converted back to cash in an emergency. Not so with "experience" purchases such as vacations, or depreciating assets such as boats.

The car insurance is a whole separate deal, but the OP could just be young. A friend's daughter just started driving and if she were to get insurance on her own it would be in that range. She's a new driver, and possibly a risk, but with no negative history.

[Mikeleric]

When I bought my my washburn classical guitar I chose it for the price without trying to decide what models I liked or which ones had good qualities. That was when car insurance was "only" just under $2,800 every 6 months. I knew the more I would spend, the guiltier I would feel, so I chose the price that would produce approximately the amount of guilt I could handle. Another theory I had was, in theory, suppose high end guitars had never been invented and only the lowest end models existed. You wouldn't know the difference and you would be satisfied with a "low end" guitar or you wouldn't be playing.

I did try plying a few models and I vaguely remember that they all sounded the same to me except for a certain Córdoba model which cost just under $1,700, and I wouldn't want a Córdoba guitar because at the moment I want a cutaway, (even though I can't "justify" it) and they don't make a model with a cutaway that isn't also smaller than traditional sized (skinnier neck or thinner body). I suppose the cordoba model had a light, simple, airy plinging tone while to me the other models sounded dark and full of echos, reminding me of a stone thrown into a pond or talking in a cave or like me as a kid talking into the core of a roll of paper towels to be silly. But again, suppose part of my brain would feel too stupid about the possibility of buying something when I "should" just be happy with what I have? I'm actually not buying anything any time soon and if I did buy something I would want my guitar teacher to watch or hear me play on a few different models first.