Yamaha LL16 ARE Passive Pickup

[leehop71]

For some reason my tablet won't let me search here, so my apologies if there has already been threads about this.

I purchased a Yamaha LL16 to use plugged in. I am running it through a Behringer chorus pedal, an LR Baggs Acoustic DI box, and a small Behringer passive PA, and I was kind of expecting a tinny 'Martin Sonitine pickup' kind of sound.

WOW! Whatever design they used with the pickup and the treated tops has made a huge difference!

It sounds absolutely amazing!!

[SpruceTop]

I agree! I tried a new Yamaha LL16R with A.R.E. torrified top and the SRT Zero Impact Passive UST at a local shop last week. Both acoustically and plugged-in, the tone was very good! The plugged-in tone was so good into a Fender AcoustiSonic 150 with all EQ set flat and no effects or enhancements engaged, that I was amazed that the SRT Zero Impact UST Passive sounded so full, warm and balanced! So, what did I do? Being that I currently don't have a 12-string guitar, I ordered a 2015 Yamaha LL16-12 from Sweetwater and it will arrive this Tuesday. I've had several excellent 12-string guitars over the years including a RainSong JM3000, Ovation Custom Legend 12-string, a couple of Taylor 355ce axes, and a Larrivee L-03-12E, but 12-stringers are always the first to go when I get GAS! So, for $899, the Yamaha LL16-12 is an all-solid-wood guitar with a pickup system that sounds very good, and for its price I can see keeping it when the urge strikes to get another guitar.

Although I'm expecting the Yamaha LL16-12 to sound great, as is, when amplified, I have a Fishman Aura Spectrum DI that I'm going to run it through to see what that'll do for its amplified tone.

SpruceTop

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Although I'm expecting the Yamaha LL-16-12 to sound great, as is, when amplified, I have a Fishman Aura Spectrum DI that I'm going to run it through to see what that'll do for its amplified tone.

SpruceTop

Please let us know how this works out. The Spectrum only has a maximum gain of 2db, so it wasn't designed with passive pickups foremost in mind. (Albeit, the input impedance is 10Mohms. They at least had the passive Fishman USTs somewhat in mind.) Hopefully, any mixer that you're running to can handle any further needed level boost.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Please let us know how this works out. The Spectrum only has a maximum gain of 2db, so it wasn't designed with passive pickups foremost in mind. (Albeit, the input impedance is 10Mohms. They at least had the passive Fishman USTs somewhat in mind.) Hopefully, any mixer that you're running to can handle any further needed level boost.

Will Do!

As far as Yamaha products go, other than a Yamaha digital keyboard, and a years-ago, excellent Yamaha analog delay unit, this is my first-ever Yamaha guitar. I've always had respect for the brand but I feel a bit guilty as my incoming Yamaha LL16-12 is a Made in China model Yamaha guitar. Then again, the best Yamaha acoustics, although much more expensive, are Made in Japan but somehow I wouldn't feel as guilty buying one of those.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Please let us know how this works out. The Spectrum only has a maximum gain of 2db, so it wasn't designed with passive pickups foremost in mind. (Albeit, the input impedance is 10Mohms. They at least had the passive Fishman USTs somewhat in mind.) Hopefully, any mixer that you're running to can handle any further needed level boost.

Hi Gary,

On Tuesday, I received my new L-Series Yamaha LL16-12 A.R.E. 12-String with SRT Zero Impact Passive UST pickup. For the price, $899, the guitar is okay both acoustically and plugged-in. I played it first directly through my VOX AG150 and with EQ flat, the tone was well-balanced, string-to-string, and fairly full. I ended up adding some Bass EQ and that made it even better. I don't know what the input impedance is on the VOX but it may be around 1 MΩ as result of comparing the relative tones between this amp and the Line 6 L2t.

Next, I plugged-in directly to my Line 6 L2t with all EQ flat. The tone was VERY thin being that the Input impedance is listed at 23.7 kΩ. Yamaha recommends plugging in to a "high impedance" input. Adding and subtracting EQ still resulted in a thinness of tone. Next, I placed my Fishman Aura Spectrum DI inline between the Yamaha and my Line 6 L2t. With all EQ on the Line 6 and the Aura set flat, I was now quite pleased with the amplified tone of the Yamaha as it was now full and resonant. I used the factory-installed 12-string Aura Images and all yielded decent-to-good acceptable amplified tone. You mentioned the Aura Spectrum's input impedance to be 2 MΩ but even with this and the Spectrum's side-wheel Trim Control completely backed-off, the Yamaha's output failed to light the Clip indicator with moderately-heavy strumming. This leads me to believe that the Yamaha's SRT Zero Impact UST passive pickup would like to see a 10 MΩ input impedance as an input on a preamp like a Venue DI or other preamp. Then, running the output of that through an Aura pedal would result in very good and acceptable amplified tone.

I noticed the SRT Zero Impact UST picks up little guitar-top vibration, thus I recommend an Aura pedal as a necessary accessory for this pickup. The better models in Yamaha's A-Series have the SRT-63 onboard preamp that includes a variation of Aura Imaging (maybe it is?). At any rate, for twice the price, today I ordered a 2015 Taylor 356ce 12-String with ES2, and will ship the Yamaha back. Having compared the two today at a local shop, there is no comparison in tone or playability between the two and with the Taylor I get the no-fuss ES2 and a much better hardshell case!

[guitaniac]

Hi SpruceTop,

I'm afraid you read my post wrong. The Spectrum's input impedance is 10Mohms. I said that the available gain is only 2db. (You can find these specs in the user manual, accessible online.)

2db gain isn't enough to bring most passive pickup signals up to a level which would overdrive the Spectrum. On the other hand, the Spectrum's 10Mohm input impedance will nicely buffer the signal, and there won't be much signal loss or degradation between the Spectrum and your amp or mixer. Hopefully, you'll have enough available gain at the amp or mixer to get the signal level to where you need it.

I only mentioned the Spectrum's 2db gain to indicate that its design doesn't have passive pickups foremost in mind. Some of the weaker passive pickups require a signal boost of 20 or 30db to get up to line level. The Baggs Venue DI, for instance, has a maximum of 26db gain available, to accomodate the weaker passive pickups.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Hi SpruceTop,

I'm afraid you read my post wrong. The Spectrum's input impedance is 10Mohms. I said that the available gain is only 2db. (You can find these specs in the user manual, accessible online.)

2db gain isn't enough to bring most passive pickup signals up to a level which would overdrive the Spectrum. On the other hand, the Spectrum's 10Mohm input impedance will nicely buffer the signal, and there won't be much signal loss or degradation between the Spectrum and your amp or mixer. Hopefully, you'll have enough available gain at the amp or mixer to get the signal level to where you need it.

I only mentioned the Spectrum's 2db gain to indicate that its design doesn't have passive pickups foremost in mind. Some of the weaker passive pickups require a signal boost of 20 or 30db to get up to line level. The Baggs Venue DI, for instance, has a maximum of 26db gain available, to accomodate the weaker passive pickups.

Gary,

I should have reread your post! Sorry about that.

So, basically, the Aura Spectrum has an ideal input impedance but, as you've mentioned, the input section of the device doesn't have enough gain to be an ideal match for anything the SRT Zero Impact has to offer. The Aura Spectrum does have more than enough output power to make up for the somewhat anemic SRT Zero Impact's output. I'd like to hear this pickup as it performs when coupled with the onboard SRT-63 preamp with Imaging in the top models of the A-Series such as the Yamaha AC3R. If it sounds as good as the Aura Spectrum, I'd say the SRT pickup has merit.

My thing is that after getting rid of a Lyric system and the much-needed Venue for it, I'm getting rid of the Yamaha so I don't have to have extra devices in my signal chain. The Taylor 356ce with ES2 will take care of that.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Gary,

I should have reread your post! Sorry about that.

So, basically, the Aura Spectrum has an ideal input impedance but, as you've mentioned, the input section of the device doesn't have enough gain to be an ideal match for anything the SRT Zero Impact has to offer. The Aura Spectrum does have more than enough output power to make up for the somewhat anemic SRT Zero Impact's output. I'd like to hear this pickup as it performs when coupled with the onboard SRT-63 preamp with Imaging in the top models of the A-Series such as the Yamaha AC3R. If it sounds as good as the Aura Spectrum, I'd say the SRT pickup has merit.

My thing is that after getting rid of a Lyric system and the much-needed Venue for it, I'm getting rid of the Yamaha so I don't have to have extra devices in my signal chain. The Taylor 356ce with ES2 will take care of that.

I can empathize with that objective (simplifying the signal chain), SpruceTop. I recently discovered that I need some convoluted EQ help from a Boss GE-7 to get the best from my Anthem SL-equipped guitar. I got a nice compliment on the revised sound last night, but I'm having to drag an extra piece of gear onstage to get that sound. I'm now hauling two pieces of gear (in addition to the guitar) on stage. (The GE-7 EQs the signal, and my trusty old Platinum preamp controls the volume level much more precisely and smoothly than the Anthem SL's volume wheel or the GE-7's slider.)

Regarding the Yamaha Imaging technology, I suspect it works better with the Yamaha pickup than the Aura technology will. And of course, the Aura technology works better with the Fishman Matrix pickup. After all, the technology was developed using those respective pickups. (I strongly suspect that's the case with the Yamaha Imaging. I know that's the case with the Aura technology.)

[Ronald O'Brien]

Just purchased last week. I was ready to pull the trigger on a Taylor 400 series acoustic/electric when I saw a Yamaha hanging on the wall nearby. Upon first inspection, the workmanship was stellar. Since I already have a Martin OM-28e retro (rosewood back and sides) as my only acoustic, I was looking for a second acoustic, preferably a dreadnaught with mahogany back and sides. I kidded the sales rep and told him to display these guitars well out of sight of the Martins and Taylors so he doesn't lose sales on these high end guitars.

The Yamaha LL 16M fit the bill perfectly, and for $700 for an all solid wood guitar, this is a no brainer. The tone, volume and projection are all excellent. The intonation is right on, albeit the action a tad high. This is a great strumming and fingerpicking guitar with loads of sustain and great bottom end. The 1 and 3/4" nut width is perfect for fingerstyle.

The basic passive pickup system is a bonus and sounds decent through my acoustic amp.

I haven't played my Martin since bringing the Yamaha home! Oh well, the honeymoon period should eventually end, but then again, maybe not.

IMO, this guitar would be a great choice for serious beginner as well as seasoned veterans.