American Airlines is breaking the guitar carry on law

[Gasworker]

Believe it or not, When low level employees are told to "go to hell" it makes there jobs easier. Trying to accommodate nice people and failing because of conditions or orders they have no control over leaves them feeling remorseful.

[amyFB]

Originally Posted by Fishfood

After 4 years of flying with them almost exclusively with a 00 guitar on every flight, AA has started in the past few weeks demanding I check my guitar at the gate. I tell them about the law requiring them to allow a carry on small instrument and one guy actually said "it's our plane. We decide what goes on it." The flight attendants still couldn't be be nicer so I've basically been telling the gate attendant to go to hell. I almost got detained today though so it's time to step up the complaints.

I think they are trying to extract priority boarding fees by claiming the overhead spaces are full but we do board early so that's a bunch of garbage.

This is a crime. I'll report back when my complaints are answered.

I flew American twice in the last week and before I got on the plane I read their website listed baggage policies .

In short , for our guitars, it is a space available option.

If a passenger is boarding in anything other than priority or group 1, then there is an increased risk of a gate checking .






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[AX17609]

It's not a law, it's a regulation that implements section 403 of the 2012 FAA Modernization and Reform Act.

Here's an article that describes it: https://www.transportation.gov/brief...travel-musical

If you're as familiar with regulatory language as I am, then you recognize that the rule requires airlines to accommodate carry-on musical instruments in a way that doesn't actually require them to do it.

[buddyhu]

I thought that most (all?) airlines have stipulations about the "maximum size carry on bag", and have those metal guides which (in theory) you should be able to fit you carry on luggage into (bad sentences structure, but you know what I mean, I hope). The FAA site mentions that the total linear inches of such bags are around 45 inches. I don't know if those come from "the Adminsitrator" named in the law. AND, the law often uses the phrase, "if there is space available"...which is a judgment call, especially if the agent is including some estimate of the space that will be needed bu others boarding after you (the law does not insist that the judgment of "space available" be made in the immediate moment...the agent would probably be working within the law if he/she were to hold your guitar until everyone has boarded and then look to see if "space is available").

I'm thinking that the airlines are probably not be "breaking the law" (even though breaking laws is very much in fashion ). It might be a good time to get off the high horse, and be a bit more flexible and "nice" when an airline employee frustrates you. And, as others have noted, even if you are technically "right", you still may not get your way...you are dealing with imperfect humans who are just trying to meet the complex demands of their job...they probably won't get it right every time, and your guitar is probably not the highest priority in their job description. Sorry about that....

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by AndreF

49 U.S. Code § 41724 - Musical instruments
(a) In General.—
(1)Small instruments as carry-on baggage.—An air carrier providing air transportation shall permit a passenger to carry a violin, guitar, or other musical instrument in the aircraft cabin, without charging the passenger a fee in addition to any standard fee that carrier may require for comparable carry-on baggage, if—
(A)
the instrument can be stowed safely in a suitable baggage compartment in the aircraft cabin or under a passenger seat, in accordance with the requirements for carriage of carry-on baggage or cargo established by the Administrator; and
(B)
there is space for such stowage at the time the passenger boards the aircraft.

(2)Larger instruments as carry-on baggage.

<<snip>>


I'm not a lawyer, but the way I read this law suggests that when it comes to 00 size acoustic guitars, consider yourself very lucky if they allow you to bring it on board.
The airline isn't breaking any law by having you check it.

The bottom line: They decide. Being nice about it, to everyone, is your best tactic, but be prepared to have to check it.

This is what the reality is.

The wording clearly states "...if...there is space for such stowage..."

Any airlines can easily state (in full truth) that the overhead bins (etc.) are *always* full, and on every flight.

This has certainly been the case on 100% of my airlines travel the past decade or so. Full flights (or nearly so), and absolutely crammed-to-the-gills/overly-full overhead compartments.

That said, usually there is a coat closet of some kind that will accommodate a guitar.

I also don't mind paying for the privilege to board early, to accommodate *my* needs.

Further, it has *always* been my contention, since day-1 of the airlines charging for baggage, that the airlines should instead charge for any carry-ons that are overhead compartment items. Boarding would be hugely simplified/expedited, and those absolutely needing to have equipment/gear/luggage on-hand would have their lives (while traveling) made much easier.

Seriously...free checked bags, but charge for non-underseat carry-ons.

Problem solved.

[Fishfood]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

This is what the reality is.

The wording clearly states "...if...there is space for such stowage..."

Any airlines can easily state (in full truth) that the overhead bins (etc.) are *always* full, and on every flight.

This has certainly been the case on 100% of my airlines travel the past decade or so. Full flights (or nearly so), and absolutely crammed-to-the-gills/overly-full overhead compartments.

Actually the overhead storage has to be full when you board in order for them to compel you to check. That's there point, they are saying that the bins are full when I'm in the first non-priority group (we pay for an AA credit card for this purpose) so always in the first 30-50 that board. There is always at least half a plane worth of overhead spaces when I board. I've been flying with them for years and never had this problem before. As a test, I'm going to pay for priority on Monday's flight and see what happens.

I called this morning and they asked me to email customer relations. I may have my son tweet them instead. He has experiwrong in stirring up interest in wrong-doing because he's young and I'm old.

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by Fishfood

Actually the overhead storage has to be full when you board in order for them to compel you to check.

<<snip>>

*I* understand this, of course...but trying to play cop/lawyer at the ticket/check-in area is always a losing proposition. Same with at the gate, if you've got an employee that has *their* mind made up on this...

As noted by others here (and repeatedly in these types of threads), the airlines employees hold *all* the cards...regardless of the current written regulations.

My default position is to always be prepared for a gate-check, get the tag prior to boarding, and then once on the jetway try to board with the guitar. Most flight-attendants will be helpful. Most. Not all.

That's *after* being as nice and friendly as I can be to any airlines employee I might be interacting with.

[6L6]

It's a new era for commercial air travelers. And... it ain't pretty.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Fishfood

Actually the overhead storage has to be full when you board in order for them to compel you to check. That's there point, they are saying that the bins are full when I'm in the first non-priority group (we pay for an AA credit card for this purpose) so always in the first 30-50 that board. There is always at least half a plane worth of overhead spaces when I board. I've been flying with them for years and never had this problem before. As a test, I'm going to pay for priority on Monday's flight and see what happens.

I called this morning and they asked me to email customer relations. I may have my son tweet them instead. He has experiwrong in stirring up interest in wrong-doing because he's young and I'm old.

I could be wrong but I am guessing. That within the legal definitions for carriage If the flight is booked full and they merely "anticipate" the overheads will fill up, with normal shaped and sized carry on , they probably have the legal right ask you to gate check any non normal shaped item like a guitar in a case . The reg .49 you are referring to is somewhat ambiguous because although it supposedly allows a small musical as carry on, it also is contingent on the instrument meeting the size requirements which any normal size guitar will actually not meet. So unless it is a 9" X 14" X 22" or less guitar , and because gate checking incurs no additional charge, I am guessing legally anything that does not meet the carry on size is up to the discretion of the agents.

Couple that with a gate agent that either has a hardass attitude, or has been harangue by someone with a guitar then it is probably an argument you are going to lose.

[amyFB]

I'm going to put in another plug for a Voyage-air or other folding guitar that is designed to fit in the overhead space; air travel has enough annoying attributes and I don't want to add another problem of my own making.

One thing I've seen/heard on pretty much every flight I've taken in the last three years:
in the terminal , an announcement that "the plane is full and there won't be enough space for all carry ons. if you are in zone (last) please help speed up the boarding process by gatechecking your carry on now".

I had a first class seat flying home the other day, and it gave me the opportunity to observe the attendants in action as the passengers boarded.

the onboard attendants were in regular phone contact with the in-terminal attendants, and some of the updates included the status of overhead space.
as in - we're out of carry on space; you'll need to get remaining passengers to gate check bags that won't fit under the seat.

Now, this last doesn't effectively address the point made about being asked to gate check while having a priority boarding pass, but, it makes me wonder if it might be an offshoot of the first observation. IOW, there never was enough carry on space for every passenger to have a bag overhead, or, because of the way we all push the permissible size envelope, we're each contributing a half an inch or more to the overall problem of running out of space before running out of baggage.

My last comment won't be popular with some, but, here goes anyhow:
traveling with a full size guitar does not entitle the guitar to more overhead luggage space than someone traveling with another kind of baggage.

Buying a priority ticket to get that space is a selfish use of the shared space that is already too small. If traveling with the guitar is so critical to your daily existence, buy the folding guitar, or buy a cargo-bin-suitable hardshell case.

Don't ask me how I feel about the cat that meowed pitifully for 4-1.2 hours from its carrier under the seat behind me.

[flaggerphil]

Also...if you're arguing about it with airline employees, you've already lost.

[Fishfood]

Thanks. All great advice.

FYI, I never use more than my one overhead slot because I always find someone with a soft bag to pair up with. The soft bag fits over the neck side perfectly. Last flight me and another guitar carrier share 2 slots. I Am always very conscientious.

[Chrom]

I have flown 94,000 air miles this year alone and I can tel you fighting with the gate agent is the last thing you should do. Especially at international destinations. I gave up a long time ago and bought a Journey Carbon. The case meets all overhead standards and NO ONE can tell it's a guitar. I've had it on the tiniest turbo props and in just about ever major international airport in the world and have never ever had an issue. I had a voyage air and it was too big for some smaller airplanes. The journey has a great sounds and being carbon i can't take it anywhere (and have).

There will come a time where they either don't allow you or force you to check it. It's not worth the stress.


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[Bluside]

Don't blame American Airlines. The law says you can bring it onboard if there is room to stow it.

I am entitled to bring a carryon bag, but if there is no room in the overhead storage bin when I board, I have to gate check my bag.

No room = No room.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Bluside

Don't blame American Airlines. The law says you can bring it onboard if there is room to stow it.

I am entitled to bring a carryon bag, but if there is no room in the overhead storage bin when I board, I have to gate check my bag.

No room = No room.

That does not appear to be the issue being discussed here. The issue is that the regulation states (at the time of boarding ) the OP was stating he was boarding in the first group so it is assumed there is still plenty of room in the overhead storage. But the fly in the ointment is the Regulation is worded ambiguously, because it also stated (in accordance with the requirements for carriage of carry-on baggage or cargo established by the Administrator;" which is as I said before is 9" x 14" x 22" a guitar will not qualify.


So for example unfortunately the statement below while it is often what eds up happening, does not mean anything because the guitar does not meet the size regulation for the "one slot"

Fishfood Thanks. All great advice.

FYI, I never use more than my one overhead slot because I always find someone with a soft bag to pair up with. The soft bag fits over the neck side perfectly. Last flight me and another guitar carrier share 2 slots. I Am always very conscientious.