My Taylor 210e DLX Mods. Fun with files!

[martingitdave]

Background

I recently purchased a new(ish) 2016 Taylor 210e DLX to use for gigs. My main guitar's pickup has been in the shop.

"Out of the box", my Taylor 210e DLX sounds like one would expect to. It has the characteristic bright Taylor tone, but balanced. I happen to like this specific model a lot. They are easy to play, can be very loud, are very durable, less susceptible to humidity fluctuations, come with a hardshell case, have an excellent ES2 pickup, and can be purchased new for less than $1,000 with some negotiation. They made great gig and travel guitars.

I also have a beautiful Martin GE custom at home with highly scalloped braces and beautiful tone woods. So, I thought to myself, "can I make the Taylor sound more like a Martin?" The short answer is "sorta, kinda, maybe, no."

Note to the reader: My scientific friend Cuki79 will make a guest appearance at the end of this story.

The Experiment:

I studied and measured the bracing in the Martin with mirrors, a ruler and a caliper the best I could (meaning not so great.) Then, over the period one week I shaved and sanded the top braces on the Taylor to somewhat approximate the Martin bracing. Understand, however, that I did not attempt to make a copy. I only let the Martin "inform" the changes that I made on the Taylor. I focused my attention to X braces and tone bars. I am not a luthier, nor do I play one on TV. I'm just an engineer with some files and sandpaper. I did work as a guitar tech as a young person, so I'm not unfamiliar with guitar repair. After each successive shaving, I would restring and listen to the results. When I was done with the shaving, I installed a new compensated bone saddle, ebony bridge pins, filed the nut slots some, installed a JP slim armrest, and adjusted the neck.

Don't try this at home kids. You're almost guaranteed to screw it up. The key is knowing when to stop, and you probably won't. Just saying. :-)

The Results:

This is the best sounding 200 series Taylor I've ever played. I know, that's like saying your the tallest of the 7 dwarfs.

Tapering and sanding the forward/treble side of the x brace made the guitar sound more "open" and "fattened" up the trebles. The guitar started to loose of the the "string forward" Taylor tone. When I focused on the bass side of the upper bout, it was the same effect, but more prominent. When I focused on the lower bout braces, the bass and resonance increased a good bit. Overall, the volume increased. Playing both the Martin and Taylor into my mixer, and checking the peaks on the RTA before and after, it appears that the Taylor gained about 1 to 2 dBA. And, the peak dBA is now the same as the Martin. It's not scientific, because I don't have that level of gear. But, the numbers justified what I was hearing. The guitar sounded much more like one of the newer Taylor models with lighter bracing.

Basically, if you play both guitars from the A string up, they sound pretty similar. Note, I am ignoring the obvious subtleties that some from an expensive guitar versus a mid/lower priced guitar. Also, the Taylor body dimension is not as deep, and it uses a laminated (unbraced) back and sides. So there are obviously many difference at play. But, if you pluck the low E string, its a different ball game. It's not that there is a lack of fundamental note bass, but something is missing compared to a good Martin. The bass on the Martin "blooms." So what's the difference?

Cuki (Maybe) Solves the Riddle:

I don't know for certain, but we suspect it's the neck joint. Cuki has been doing some experiments of his own with some sophisticated equipment. I will let him explain those, if he chooses to do so. But, the gist is that when he excited the top, he measures a tremendous amount of energy, in the sub 100 Hz frequency range, right around the neck joint of his test guitar. The Martin dovetail joint uses some glue and a strong wood/wood mechanical joint. It seems to vibrate more freely.

Our hypothesis is that the strong mechanical coupling of the bolted neck, and the additional bracing connecting to the top to fingerboard extension, dampens many of these wonderful low overtones that might otherwise emanate.

So what do you think?

[DavidE]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Background

I recently purchased a new(ish) 2016 Taylor 210e DLX to use for gigs. My main guitar's pickup has been in the shop.

"Out of the box", my Taylor 210e DLX sounds like one would expect to. It has the characteristic bright Taylor tone, but balanced. I happen to like this specific model a lot. They are easy to play, can be very loud, are very durable, less susceptible to humidity fluctuations, come with a hardshell case, have an excellent ES2 pickup, and can be purchased new for less than $1,000 with some negotiation. They made great gig and travel guitars.

I also have a beautiful Martin GE custom at home with highly scalloped braces and beautiful tone woods. So, I thought to myself, "can I make the Taylor sound more like a Martin?" The short answer is "sorta, kinda, maybe, no."

Note to the reader: My scientific friend Cuki79 will make a guest appearance at the end of this story.

The Experiment:

I studied and measured the bracing in the Martin with mirrors, a ruler and a caliper the best I could (meaning not so great.) Then, over the period one week I shaved and sanded the top braces on the Taylor to somewhat approximate the Martin bracing. Understand, however, that I did not attempt to make a copy. I only let the Martin "inform" the changes that I made on the Taylor. I focused my attention to X braces and tone bars. I am not a luthier, nor do I play one on TV. I'm just an engineer with some files and sandpaper. I did work as a guitar tech as a young person, so I'm not unfamiliar with guitar repair. After each successive shaving, I would restring and listen to the results. When I was done with the shaving, I installed a new compensated bone saddle, ebony bridge pins, filed the nut slots some, installed a JP slim armrest, and adjusted the neck.

Don't try this at home kids. You're almost guaranteed to screw it up. The key is knowing when to stop, and you probably won't. Just saying. :-)

The Results:

This is the best sounding 200 series Taylor I've ever played. I know, that's like saying your the tallest of the 7 dwarfs. Tapering and sanding the forward/treble side of the x brace made the guitar sound more "open" and "fattened" up the trebles. The guitar started to loose of the the "string forward" Taylor tone. When I focused on the bass side of the upper bout, it was the same effect, but more prominent. When I focused on the lower bout braces, the bass and resonance increased a good bit. Overall, the volume increased. Playing both the Martin and Taylor into my mixer, and checking the peaks on the RTA before and after, it appears that the Taylor gained about 1 to 2 dBA. And, the peak dBA is now the same as the Martin. It's not scientific, because I don't have that level of gear. But, the numbers justified what I was hearing. The guitar sounded much more like one of the newer Taylor models with lighter bracing.

Basically, if you play both guitars from the A string up, they sound pretty similar. Note, I am ignoring the obvious subtleties that some from an expensive guitar versus a mid/lower priced guitar. But if you pluck the low E string, its a different ball game. I would say that the Taylor sounds a lot like the Larrivee D09e I used to own. It's not that there is a lack of bass, but something is missing compared to a good Martin. The bass on the Martin "blooms." So what's the difference?

Cuki (Maybe) Solves the Riddle:

I don't know for certain, but we suspect it's the neck joint. Cuki has been doing some experiments of his own with some sophisticated equipment. I will let him explain those, if he chooses to do so. But, the gist is that when he excited the top, he measures a tremendous amount of energy, in the sub 100 Hz frequency range, right around the neck joint of his test guitar. The Martin dovetail joint uses some glue and a strong wood/wood mechanical joint. The Taylor, Larrivee, Collings, and other guitars use a bolt on neck. A quick look up at the underside of the Taylor's upper bout and you will see a large amount of wood coupled to the top to support the neck joint. I have no complaints because this makes them playable, stable, and easily reset.

Our hypothesis is that the strong mechanical coupling of the bolted neck, changes the elasticity, and dampens many of these wonderful low overtones that emanate from the Martin. It's a small sample, but the Collings, Taylors, and Larrivee I've owned all exhibited the same thing.

So what does that tell you? When you buy a Martin, you also get a more effective neck subwoofer. :-)

Try a Martin with a bolt on neck.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by DavidE

Try a Martin with a bolt on neck.

Funny you should mention that. I did. I bought the Martin DR Centennial. It was a great guitar, and has a bit more bass than the Taylor, but also had less low overtones than its dovetail counterpart. Martin makes a great bolt on neck guitar that sounds very "Martin" like.

And, actually, this specific Martin guitar is what got Cuki and I talking about this dovetail versus bolt on phenomenon in the first place.

I wish there was more data.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[dantin]

I wonder if I am incorrect, but I understood Larrivee necks were all built with a glued in dovetail joint. I remember an interview where Jean mentions this as something he cannot get away from.

Perhaps there are more factors that affect the bass response?

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by dantin

I wonder if I am incorrect, but I understood Larrivee necks were all built with a glued in dovetail joint. I remember an interview where Jean mentions this as something he cannot get away from.

Perhaps there are more factors that affect the bass response?

I think you're correct. I'll go back and edit.