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Old 02-28-2018, 08:06 PM
hansentj hansentj is offline
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Default Building a home studio from scratch

Hi all,
I find myself in the very lovely position of having about $4K to build a home studio. Originally, this had to include a computer in the pricetag but that has been taken care of so that's a nice bonus!

I have pretty limited experience with recording, the extent of being done with Logic Pro and a Firewire 410 which I only ever utilized 2 inputs of at one time. Here's what I'm considering doing:

1. Apogee Quartet
2. Logic Pro
3. Sennheiser e914
4. 2 Yamaha HS8 8”
5. Akai Professional MPK Mini
6. Audio Technica ATH M50
7. Blue Mix Fi Headphones
8. Monitor Stands

The other stuff I have in hand is an AT 4040 large diaphragm mic and another Sennheiser e914. Plus a slew of SM57s and 58Betas.

The big variable in all this is the Interface. I'd like to have 8 inputs rather than the 4 I get with the Quartet, even though I can't imagine utilizing that many at once all that often, but still it would be nice. So my sound guy is suggesting I look into a Metric Halo ULN8 because he's a fan of the preamps. But man if that doesn't pretty much each up my whole budget just on the interface. I was under the impression the preamps on the apogee products are pretty great. He's also suggested looking into MOTU products.

So I guess I'd love to get all of yous guys' opinions. What do you think about what I've put together? Is that a solid package that covers the basics or is there something I'm missing? If you were in a similar position, would you do the same or look to a totally different way of going about it?

In the long run I'd like to record some albums with a full band using this setup, but we'd probably piecemeal the recording rather than trying to get everyone in on the track at once.

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 02-28-2018, 08:23 PM
midwinter midwinter is offline
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Will the HS8s even fit on a speaker stand?

The interface and software are fine (I'm currently debating between the Apollo and the Apogee).

The mics seem weak—but again, it's unclear what you're going to be recording. I'd suggest budgeting more money for better/better variety of mics. There are some interesting and relatively cheap mics out there (I love the two Warm Audio mics I have and often use them over my "nicer" mics).

I don't know anything about the pre you're suggesting. It may be fine, depending on what you're after, but you may want some variation in sonic coloring that different pres can get you. I opted to pick up differently colored pres in my rig (4 channels of clean, 4 channels of Neve-y, two channels of tube) based on my needs.

How big is your room? Do you need a snake? Pop filters? Gobos?

You might consider a pair of open-back headphones just for roughing in a mix. I love my K240s.
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Old 02-28-2018, 08:40 PM
hansentj hansentj is offline
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The room itself is not terribly big, about 15 feet by 10 feet with a vaulted ceiling. One entire wall will be sound reinforced, wood panelling with 3/4 inch gaps and ultratouch behind. Additional sound reinforcement will be put in as needed once it's complete, the building is currently under construction. I won't need a snake.

Thanks for the suggestion on the mics, pres, and open back headphones. I'll look into it some more.
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Old 02-28-2018, 09:14 PM
midwinter midwinter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hansentj View Post
Thanks for the suggestion on the mics, pres, and open back headphones. I'll look into it some more.
It might help to describe what you're hoping to record. Acoustic stuff (I love the Billy Jean on your YT, by the way)? Rock bands? Yourself?
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Old 02-28-2018, 10:14 PM
hansentj hansentj is offline
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Stuff similar to the style and feel of what you see on youtube. That certainly gives a taste of the type of music I play, and Ill be almost exclusively recording myself. But I'd like to explore fuller sound, adding layers of guitars, electric, bass, keys, synths, percussion, and exploring loops. Plus I'd like to be able to record 2 or three people simultaneously and have ample separation between tracks so that I can actually do some editing. In the long run, I'm planning on recording a Christmas and Worship album for the worship team that I lead.

This is something I recorded using the 410 that's a little fuller sound. I'd like to do more like that...only, you know, good.

https://soundcloud.com/tylerhansen-1/oh-holy-night

Thanks midwinter.
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Old 02-28-2018, 10:35 PM
DupleMeter DupleMeter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hansentj View Post
Hi all,
I find myself in the very lovely position of having about $4K to build a home studio. Originally, this had to include a computer in the pricetag but that has been taken care of so that's a nice bonus!

I have pretty limited experience with recording, the extent of being done with Logic Pro and a Firewire 410 which I only ever utilized 2 inputs of at one time. Here's what I'm considering doing:

1. Apogee Quartet
2. Logic Pro
3. Sennheiser e914
4. 2 Yamaha HS8 8”
5. Akai Professional MPK Mini
6. Audio Technica ATH M50
7. Blue Mix Fi Headphones
8. Monitor Stands

The other stuff I have in hand is an AT 4040 large diaphragm mic and another Sennheiser e914. Plus a slew of SM57s and 58Betas.

The big variable in all this is the Interface. I'd like to have 8 inputs rather than the 4 I get with the Quartet, even though I can't imagine utilizing that many at once all that often, but still it would be nice. So my sound guy is suggesting I look into a Metric Halo ULN8 because he's a fan of the preamps. But man if that doesn't pretty much each up my whole budget just on the interface. I was under the impression the preamps on the apogee products are pretty great. He's also suggested looking into MOTU products.

So I guess I'd love to get all of yous guys' opinions. What do you think about what I've put together? Is that a solid package that covers the basics or is there something I'm missing? If you were in a similar position, would you do the same or look to a totally different way of going about it?

In the long run I'd like to record some albums with a full band using this setup, but we'd probably piecemeal the recording rather than trying to get everyone in on the track at once.

Thoughts?
I love the Metric Halo interfaces - that's what I use. On top of making great interfaces, the company is so great to deal with. I've gotten support from the company owner on a Sunday afternoon when I was in the heat of a recording session. They're just the absolute best. That said, they are a little pricey, but I think they are a bargain for what they are.

The MOTU interfaces are solid interfaces with nice preamps. You certainly could do a lot worse than MOTU.

The only other interface I would suggest to consider is the UAD Apollo. I've used a couple of different vintages of them on different gigs over the years...and have been pleased with the sound. Anyone who's played Halo: Spartan Assault has heard the UAD Apollo, which I used to record all the choral parts. The other plus of the Apollo is the UAD hosted plugins. They sound good and being able to offload them to the interface DSP helps on big mixes. I'm particularly fond of their EMT 140 plugin...maybe the best reverb plug I've heard.

Of the other equipment you have listed my comments would be:

The ATH M50s are great headphones.

Audio-Technica 40 series mics are great. Easily worth 2-3x their price. I suggest dumping the 4040 & go right for a 4050. I have 3 of the 4050s and use at least one of them on just about every session I do.

Sennheiser makes great stuff. I've never not liked any of their mics. Though, funny story, I did the audio post for some of their Pro Talk videos and even though we had access to any of their mics we used DPAs into a SoundDevices 688 for all the audio capture ;-)

The Yamahas are ok - not my favorite nearfields. They'll get the job done but not as well as something from DynAudio or Focal. Some guys I respect really like the KRKs.

I don't have any experience with the Akai or the Blue Mix Fi headphones. So I can't comment.

A lot of people really like Logic. You need to be happy with your DAW choice because it has to work for you. If you like it use it. The only reason to consider something else is for compatibility with other people you're working with.

Hope that helps and doesn't further confuse things.
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Old 03-01-2018, 08:21 AM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
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For more mic preamps on an interface, you can't beat the price ($300) on a Tascam 16x8. Tascams have been very stable with any OS and updates have always been available. Nothing wrong with their preamp sound either. The Focusrite Claret8 is $800.

The other thing you should budget for is acoustic treatment in your room - broadband traps (bass traps) - in the corners, at 'point of first reflection' on your side walls and a ceiling cloud above your sitting area when mixing.
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Old 03-01-2018, 12:42 PM
DukeX DukeX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post
The mics seem weak—but again, it's unclear what you're going to be recording. I'd suggest budgeting more money for better/better variety of mics. There are some interesting and relatively cheap mics out there (I love the two Warm Audio mics I have and often use them over my "nicer" mics).
I agree with this. In the equipment recording chain, mics are the most important IMO. So many good choices that aren't too expensive.
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Old 03-01-2018, 05:21 PM
hansentj hansentj is offline
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Thank you everyone. So the takeaway I'm getting from this is maybe I should consider spending a little less on an interface with wicked preamps (such as the Metric Halo or even the Apogee) and look to invest in some better mics, treatment for the room, and perhaps a nice pre that is a separate unit from the interface.
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Old 03-01-2018, 06:43 PM
midwinter midwinter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hansentj View Post
Thank you everyone. So the takeaway I'm getting from this is maybe I should consider spending a little less on an interface with wicked preamps (such as the Metric Halo or even the Apogee) and look to invest in some better mics, treatment for the room, and perhaps a nice pre that is a separate unit from the interface.

That’s been my approach. I bought mics and pres first. Then monitors. Next is interface.

If you want things clean (as opposed to colored by the pre) take a look at the FMR Audio RNP units. I have four channels of it and love them. Really cheap per channel and really transparent.

PM me if you want and I’ll be happy to share some examples of tracks I’ve done with certain mics or pres.
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Old 03-01-2018, 06:48 PM
DupleMeter DupleMeter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hansentj View Post
Thank you everyone. So the takeaway I'm getting from this is maybe I should consider spending a little less on an interface with wicked preamps (such as the Metric Halo or even the Apogee) and look to invest in some better mics, treatment for the room, and perhaps a nice pre that is a separate unit from the interface.


Well, I'm not sure I agree.

Your interface will be the basis of your sound because it's going to do the A to D conversion. If you skimp there you are skimping everywhere.

I would rather have a really good pre/converter and mediocre mics. Mediocre preamps & converters are going to get in the way of everything. Even really nice mics will sound only ok with cheap preamps. While an SM57 can sound amazing through a good pre.

You do need to worry about room acoustics, but it's hard to give advice about that without knowing your room. But I will say that you could treat your room for $150-200, if you're even a little bit handy. So don't sweat that end of it too much.

And keep in mind, you'll always have the opportunity to grab more mics. So don't feel like you need to start off with a killer mic closet. Get a few good mics (like the AT4050) and add to the collection as you get a better sense of what works for you.

Also, don't cheap out on your monitoring. If your monitors are lying to you your mixes will always struggle. There are 2 bad things bad monitors do: 1. They mask problems so you don't know they're there & 2. They create problems that aren't really in your mix. In both cases you end up working against yourself.
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Old 03-01-2018, 09:59 PM
DupleMeter DupleMeter is offline
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Check this out for some very practical (& inexpensive) ideas about room treatment.

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Last edited by DupleMeter; 03-02-2018 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 03-02-2018, 09:52 AM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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...
I'd like to have 8 inputs rather than the 4 I get with the Quartet, even though I can't imagine utilizing that many at once all that often, but still it would be nice.
...
Consider the Apogee Element 46 or 88. These are great interfaces, using hardware systems from the Apogee Sympony Mk II, Thunderbolt Ensemble and Groove which results in slightly better preamps, conversion and headphone amp than the Quartet. The price is kept down because functions are software controlled (called "Apogee Control"), not hardware controlled. The Apogee Control system is quite nice, integrates with Logic and can be run wirelessly from an iphone or ipad.

As to microphones, I agree with what others have said above. Mics rule, as does room treatment. As to monitors, get the best you can afford.

Last edited by sdelsolray; 03-02-2018 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 03-02-2018, 10:31 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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... I'd like to be able to record 2 or three people simultaneously and have ample separation between tracks so that I can actually do some editing.
Really hard to achieve that with three people in one small room. More realistic, maybe, to figure on doing lots of takes and editing between those, slicing across all tracks at once.
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Old 03-02-2018, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hansentj View Post
Thank you everyone. So the takeaway I'm getting from this is maybe I should consider spending a little less on an interface with wicked preamps (such as the Metric Halo or even the Apogee) and look to invest in some better mics, treatment for the room, and perhaps a nice pre that is a separate unit from the interface.
Lot's of approaches you could take; you may want to consider not only your initial budget/purchases but also what your upgrade path might look like.

As an example, if your initial purchase doesn't include an interface with your ideal 'wicked' preamps and converters then you could consider something like a Motu, a Focusrite 18i8 (4 preamps) or a 18i20 (8 preamps). This would allow quite a bit more of your budget for other components. Over time you could add external preamps, and even external converters, to your system (at that point the Focusrite would be primarily used only as the interface).

My main purpose for home recording is stereo recording of acoustic guitar. So, over time I've focused on building up a very nice 2 channel setup plus I have additional channels of lower quality, but still nice gear, if needed for other recording circumstances. For the acoustic guitar I'm using a pair of Gefell Omni mics, a pair of 'clean' Speck 5.0 MicPre, a Mytek stereo ADC, and a Motu interface. If I need additional channels I can use the Motu's internal preamps and converters with some less pricey mics that I have.
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