Do luthiers compromise on string gauges ?

[wuzzo]

Hello,
Sometimes I play an .011 extra light string set, sometimes a .012 light set. In having a custom guitar built will the luthier build to accomodate either or must I settle on one or the other ?

[geordie]

Originally Posted by wuzzo

Hello,
In having a custom guitar built will the luthier build to accommodate either or must I settle on one or the other ?

that's a tough call wuz, string manufacturers don't all produce the same gauging through a set of - 11's or 12's so you think the luthier should build for a particular make / set of strings ?

[Bruce Sexauer]

I doubt I am the only one who builds to specific tensions. Not for one string, but for sets. For many years, early on, I favored Thomastic Medium Plectrums, which were actually around 11/50 tension, and I felt that lights (12/54) might do damage. Time has shown that the line probably isn't that narrow. It is true IMO that a very lightly built guitar can be choked by a heavier string, and lose some of its liveliness, becoming less "fun" to play.

[pfox14]

In order for a guitar (custom or otherwise) to be set up properly, you need to determine what string set/gauge you will be using. You can always change to another set, but it would require re-setting up the guitar.

[wuzzo]

Originally Posted by geordie

that's a tough call wuz, string manufacturers don't all produce the same gauging through a set of - 11's or 12's so you think the luthier should build for a particular make / set of strings ?

Not necessarily for a particular manufacturer's set, geordie, but for six, predetermined, string gauges. For example, I'm currently employing a set of Thomastik Spectrum bronze- 12/16/25/35/44/54- in contrast to the Thomastik Plectrum AC111s I frequently use. It makes a nice change, as you're indubitably aware, and helps develop the range of my performance.
Having the 35/44/54 on the bottom warms up the bass lines considerably but it's very difficult to manage a whole tone bend on , say, the third fret with a 25 gauge G string. The AC111s have a 19 G string - far more comfortable for bending - but feel weak in the bottoms at 27/36/50, particularly the D string which is a whole 8 thou thinner.

So, for the purposes of brevity, I'm moving towards specific, non-set- gauges which suit my playing. I haven't concluded my experimentations yet but it certainly feels good- as a player- to take control of the strings instead of having them dictate to me. My problem now is to provide my luthiers with the details of the gauges I'll be using but first I needed to determine that that was necessary. Strangely enough, Bruce is describing his experiences with exactly the same string sets that I'm experimenting with !

[wuzzo]

Duplicate. Server probs somewhere.

[wuzzo]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

I doubt I am the only one who builds to specific tensions. Not for one string, but for sets. For many years, early on, I favored Thomastic Medium Plectrums, which were actually around 11/50 tension, and I felt that lights (12/54) might do damage. Time has shown that the line probably isn't that narrow. It is true IMO that a very lightly built guitar can be choked by a heavier string, and lose some of its liveliness, becoming less "fun" to play.

Hello Bruce, odd that we should be describing very similar strings of the same gauge.
In fairness, my current favourite guitar- ' Albert '- a factory Alhambra- was built for lights and came fitted with 12/54s. He handles 11s OK but , as I said, that particular Thomastik set is bass-weak for my right hand. I'm assuming that it's no problem at all for a luthier to be given predetermined gauges, but what if they comprised, say, a mix of light bass and extra-light tops ? 11/14/20/35/44/54- just as an example with a marked difference in gauges- and I'm assuming tensions too. Would that require a special construction ?

[wuzzo]

Originally Posted by pfox14

In order for a guitar (custom or otherwise) to be set up properly, you need to determine what string set/gauge you will be using. You can always change to another set, but it would require re-setting up the guitar.

Yes, I understand that now, but I can't see how that could be satisfactorily achieved without a change of both nut and saddle. It seems to me to be a point in favour of the zero fret.

[Bruce Sexauer]

Same maker and similar names, but I think the strings were quite different in the '70s when I did this. I have used a few sets in modern times and they seem more normal today, though maybe I became acclimated. Those old strings were silk and steel, so I thought at the time, and the winding on each of the wound strings seemed to use a separate technology! One was flat wound and the next round wound. I love those strings for several years and then they became unavailable to me as the importer, Great West Music (?) was in Canada and I moved to the US. Doesn't seem that that would be such a big problem now, but it did at the time. I still favor the Thomastic "BeBop" strings on my archtop.

[wuzzo]

Would there be any special construction involved, Bruce, with extra-light tops and light bottoms ?

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by wuzzo

Hello,
Sometimes I play an .011 extra light string set, sometimes a .012 light set. In having a custom guitar built will the luthier build to accomodate either or must I settle on one or the other ?

Originally Posted by pfox14

In order for a guitar (custom or otherwise) to be set up properly, you need to determine what string set/gauge you will be using. You can always change to another set, but it would require re-setting up the guitar.

I guess it depends on how close to ideal you want to be. Changing to the next guage set may not require any tweaks, or maybe just a tweak in the relief adjustment. Then again, I imagine most luthiers do their saddle compensation based upon the intended string gauge for that particular guitar; if you use a different gauge the intonation may be off a bit but maybe it's not noticeable.

On my latest guitar, the Carruth 12-fret 000, Alan compensated the saddle and the nut. He did this using the brand and gauge of string that I intended to use on the guitar.

I'm also in agreement with Bruce Sexauer's statement that some guitars may sound 'choked' if a heavier gauge is used on a guitar intended for the lighter gauge. On my Poling I intended to use mediums, but it did sound choked with that gauge and sounds much better with lights.

[Bruce Sexauer]

Originally Posted by wuzzo

Would there be any special construction involved, Bruce, with extra-light tops and light bottoms ?

Well, yes! That's what I mean by "light build", and for bigger strings, "heavy build".

[J-F C]

I recently commissioned a guitar to be custom built by FRED TELLIER (member fetellier) and one of the first question he asked was the string gauge I usually play and forsesee to play on this next guitar. Make sense to me.

[ecguitar44]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

It is true IMO that a very lightly built guitar can be choked by a heavier string, and lose some of its liveliness, becoming less "fun" to play.

VERY true!

[wuzzo]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

Well, yes! That's what I mean by "light build", and for bigger strings, "heavy build".

Sure, but - specifically- if my chosen gauges end up in the region of;

11/14/20/33/42/53

...would that be an ' imbalanced ' range of tensions requiring any special build considerations ?

Of course, I realise that different manufacturers' strings have different tensions at pitch so I'm assuming ' normal ' tensions across the range.