cocobolo with cedar top

ghus32 · #1 09-28-2013, 09:58 PM

HI everyone,

I was wondering if anyone had the experience of playing a guitar with cocobolo and cedar?

what do you guys think of the combination?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6DhT0thG48

I listened to this Lowden with brasilian RW and I love the tone and sustain.

I cannot afford BRW guitar, but this combo sounds intriguing.

islandguitar · #2 09-29-2013, 05:24 AM

This is the combination of wood which is ahead for my Tom Doerr build. He HIGHLY recommended this for my style of play. He's built a number of them in this combination. The Doerr build slot that's just ahead of mine will also be this wood combo and that individual is an AGF member and will surely post a build thread on his guitar so you'll see it come together.
Regards,
Fred

Jschlueter · #3 09-29-2013, 05:31 AM

I had a Cocobolo Cedar guitar built by Tom Doerr for quite a while and loved it! The only reason I sold it was because I am more of a flatpicker than a finger picker...even though now I regret selling it.
Anyway I think it is a great combo for fingerstyle and even light strumming.

SJ VanSandt · #4 09-29-2013, 05:55 AM

I have a cocobolo/cedar Charis that has loads of sustain and a very beautiful tone and I'm probably going to sell it. If you play like the guy in the video you would probably love it, but I'm more of a strummer/flatpicker and I find the lack of bass growl and projection to be disappointing. I also can't drive it as hard as I'd like, probably due to the cedar top. So think carefully about your playing style (and how it may be evolving) before you invest in anything! I didn't do enough of that, and now someone is going to get a sweet deal on a beautiful finger style guitar.

KolayaGuitars · #5 09-29-2013, 07:11 AM

I've built a few guitars in this combo with fantastic results. However, in my opinion- not a replacement for Brazilian. It will give the same "rosewood-ish" tone, but will be more about the builder as to what exactly the combination produces in the end. Coco is generally brighter, with a little less to offer in the low end, which makes it a good choice for larger guitars. More suited to finger style in a smaller body guitar, strumming could work in larger guitars that bring a little more low end to the table. To better help, maybe you could answer a few questions.

What type of playing do you do?
What size of a guitar are you looking for?
Have you considered Wenge as well?
Or, how about Amazon Rosewood? I have a few sets of Amazon that are nearly indistinguishable from Brazilian.

Hope this was helpful.

Brad

ghus32 · #6 09-29-2013, 07:12 PM

HI thanks for the reply.

I am looking for an om style guitar with a deeper body. I played an OM2H deep body collings and I really liked it. The om shape really suits me.

as far as tone goes, I want as much bass as you can get out of om style guitar with a warm sound, and I know a dread would be better for this, but I have played a few oms that do this.

So I am guessing cocobolo maybe not the wood for me. I was watching a video of a john mayer model with cocobolo and adarondack top which sounded really good.

What woods would you guys suggest that has some bass warm, and not too much treble. As far away from a taylor sound as you can get. I do like some martins, but I find them to be inconsistant across the board.

thanks for the replies. I love this board already.

SuperB23 · #7 09-29-2013, 07:56 PM

IMO Cedar and Sitka are the two best tops for Cocobolo.

KolayaGuitars · #8 09-29-2013, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghus32

HI thanks for the reply.

I am looking for an om style guitar with a deeper body. I played an OM2H deep body collings and I really liked it. The om shape really suits me.

as far as tone goes, I want as much bass as you can get out of om style guitar with a warm sound, and I know a dread would be better for this, but I have played a few oms that do this.

So I am guessing cocobolo maybe not the wood for me. I was watching a video of a john mayer model with cocobolo and adarondack top which sounded really good.

What woods would you guys suggest that has some bass warm, and not too much treble. As far away from a taylor sound as you can get. I do like some martins, but I find them to be inconsistant across the board.

thanks for the replies. I love this board already.

I guess it depends on your budget. Wenge is an excellent stand in for Brazilian, in my opinion. No, it is NOT the new Brazilian, but it is very very good. Indian Rosewood, Amazon Rosewood, Ziricote...those will also deliver what you're looking for I believe in my OM body. The Cedar is going to do a good job of warming up the tone. The key is going to be finding the right builder for you. I have two 15" (OM Size) models, the OM and the Carmen. The Carmen is a little more Grand Concert-ish, rounder in the lower bout, deep waist. My OM is very similar to the traditional shape, with some tweaks. I'd love to talk more in depth about what you're looking for and the type of playing you plan to use the guitar for. Feel free to e-mail me. [email protected]

Brad

JoeCharter · #9 09-29-2013, 09:55 PM

You can sort of guess it's some kind of cedar/redwood in that video. If you're very lucky, you might also guess that it's some kind of rosewood for back and sides. I personally would not bet more than $20.

Beyond that point, from the video it is impossible to tell whether it's BRW, cocobolo or whatever else. Impossible. Even in person with my eyes closed, I would not bet more than $50.

So from the YouTube video, at best you could conclude that you like cedar top Lowdens -- and even that is a stretch.

My recommendation is to find a builder that you like and take it from there. Once you've identified a builder, you can fine tune the woods that you want.

ghus32 · #10 09-29-2013, 10:47 PM

the back and sides are brasilian rosewood and the top is cedar in the video

JoeCharter · #11 09-29-2013, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghus32

the back and sides are brasilian rosewood and the top is cedar in the video

Yes I understand. My previous reply essentially suggested that you can't "hear" the BRW in that video. It's not exactly a good reference.

lodi_55 · #12 09-30-2013, 12:03 AM

Coco and cedar make a wonderful combo. I prefer Coco to rosewood on my classicals, but YMMV. Lots of warmth with some mild brightness from the Coco. Fantastic!

royd · #13 10-02-2013, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghus32

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6DhT0thG48

I listened to this Lowden with brasilian RW and I love the tone and sustain.

If you like that sound, get a cedar topped Lowden, back and sides... just about any of them. The video strikes me as a pretty stereotypical Lowden sound. And since you want an OMish size, look at the F models which are just a tiny bit larger than an OM but, that is what you're listening to.

For comparisons sake being aware of different mics, strings, players...

Doug Young playing a Pierre Bensusan model - F size adirondack/Honduran rosewood

An F25, cedar/Indian rosewood

And a cedar/cocobolo F

and google is your friend to find other examples

W. D. · #14 10-04-2013, 10:20 AM

I have a Kent Chasson "Concert" (OM) in redwood and ziricote that really matches up with the tonal description you are looking for. The redwood provides warmth like cedar, but also headroom. It's a surprisingly loud guitar; the top lights up with the slightest touch, and it is very very sensitive. The bass is quite strong and dark -- significantly more than you would expect from an OM. The trebles are warm and bell-like but not sparkly, and the balance is great. It is a wonderful, inspiring finger-style guitar.

Kent built it alongside a coco/spruce guitar that had a very different tonal character, more suited to flat picking and strumming, with a very special mid-range character.

Check out the build thread for both guitars:
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...hlight=Chasson

Wouldn't hurt to give Kent a call. He was great to work with on a commission, and the result was exactly what I was hoping for tonally, only better.

That said, I recognize that using words to describe tone is problematic and prone to mis-translation. Also, I'm assuming that you are looking for a finger-style instrument.

Best of success in you search for your ideal instrument.

thirstycocobolo · #15 10-04-2013, 03:53 PM

I have a cedar cocobolo jumbo recently and it turned out to be a great guitar. changed to Bone pin this week and it even brighten a bit. however, I spotted a engleman cocobolo custom SJ from the same maker, it use the better cocobolo and I assumed it would sound much better, so I grabbed it. it turned out to be a disaster. it got lots of sustain, but the note is not musical. not ringing to me. changed 4 set of strings, the same. the action is very low and the neck is very very straight. could this be a reason? maybe I should adjust the truss rod and give it a bit relief. have you guys notice you lost tone when reduce relief?