Thinking about buying a used guitar with intonation problems, need advice

[ilikeguitar90]

I'm in a bit of a dilemma here, I found a used Martin Dreadnought Junior for $300 at a local guitar store that is really speaking to me but the problem is the intonation on the high e is way off. For the first 2 frets it sounds okay but then after that it starts getting more flat with each note as you go up the neck. At the 12th fret my tuner says it's on the border of a totally incorrect note altogether, not even the correct note but flat. The b string also has slightly incorrect intonation at the 12th fret but the rest of the strings are perfect.

I really want this guitar if a setup from a luthier can fix it for around $50-$75. I'm primarily an electric player and know how intonation works on something like a Stratocaster but I don't know much about acoustic guitars. Do you guys think this issue can be fixed without some serious (and expensive) work? These guitars were introduced in 2015 I believe so it can't be that old and it definitely has a lot of saddle left if that makes a difference.

[stormin1155]

A simple setup on an acoustic guitar is unlikely to fix an intonation problem. Intonation is set by moving the saddle forward or backward. Not easily done on an acoustic. Sometimes a bad string will cause intonation problems. Too high of action can also, because you are stretching it in order to fret it. But that results in the notes going sharp, not flat.

Is there some way you can have a tech look at it before purchasing?

[ilikeguitar90]

Originally Posted by stormin1155

A simple setup on an acoustic guitar is unlikely to fix an intonation problem. Intonation is set by moving the saddle forward or backward. Not easily done on an acoustic. Sometimes a bad string will cause intonation problems. Too high of action can also, because you are stretching it in order to fret it. But that results in the notes going sharp, not flat.

Is there some way you can have a tech look at it before purchasing?

The action is low without fret buzz so unfortunately I don't think the action is the culprit. The strings on it are very old though, they are pretty grimey. I wouldn't be surprised if they are the original strings that shipped on it back in 2015. But I don't think an old string would cause it to be THAT off would it? I mean the high e is at the incorrect note at the 12th fret, it's way off. The guitar has a lot of natural wear and gunk on the fretboard though so whoever owned it before either didn't care about playing in tune on the high e at all or the old strings really are the issue. It's obviously been played a ton. Hopefully it's the strings and not something more serious. Any ballpark estimate on how much I would have to pay to get the intonation sorted out if the saddle needs to be moved?

I'm thinking of asking my brother to come along and let me know what he thinks of it. He's no luthier or tech but at least he can give me a second opinion haha

[colins]

Kind of worrying that the intonation is only bad on one string. When any of my acoustics need routine adjustment it is because the variation in intonation is a little bit out across all six strings.

Is there a local guitar repairer that you know? Call him/her and describe the problem and see what they say about ease of fixing. If they can give you a rough price over the phone it helps you decide. And if they say "wow that's a weird one" it also helps you decide!

Good luck.

[ChalkLitIScream]

Strange case. Being almost a note off seems extreme. You could adjust the break and dangle where the string meets the saddle, but I don't think there'd be enough room for a full fix.

Old strings throw off intonation and the saddle compensation may not be correct. When added up, they just might be able to cause such an extreme intonation issue. In other words, it may be totally fixable with new strings and a proper saddle.

It could also be the nut which is the issue. Either the height is too high and the first few notes will be sharp ( or in another perspective, all the other notes sound flat) and/or the nut was placed in the wrong place.

Try a capo on the 2nd fret, tune it up, and then see how intonation is. If its good, then there's an issue at the nut end.

[thegazza]

I've got one of the original Dread Jr's that was badly setup as new. Some setup work later, it's now one of the best playing guitars in any price bracket that I've played.

When searching for mine, I did play one that had a badly cut nut that forced the high E string too close to the edge of the fretboard.

Gazza

[Von Beerhofen]

Old grimey strings may well be the cause of it. I wouldn't assess the situation with such strings on. If the strings are very light it may also cause this problem, so make sure you use the thickness which is adviced by the manufacturer and then see how it goes. If that doesn't fully cure it you might start thinking of changing to a compensated saddle, if it's not already there. A skilled repair guy can possibly slightly change the positions where the strings meet the saddle, which could be an improvement too. If that fails the nut could be replaced too and moved forward or backwards a little, that is if the repairman doesn't have another possibly cheaper idea. It depends on the value of a guitar wether you think it's worth the money.

Ludwig

[Gasworker]

Originally Posted by ilikeguitar90

I'm in a bit of a dilemma here, I found a used Martin Dreadnought Junior for $300 at a local guitar store that is really speaking to me but the problem is the intonation on the high e is way off.

Not all talking guitars tell the truth.

[Goodallboy]

I had a guitar once that one of the best guitar luthiers in Nashville advised me to just give up on intonating it. The neck had a slight twist to it and couldn’t be intonated. He said he only sees one of these every few years.

[BFD]

Originally Posted by ChalkLitIScream

...Old strings throw off intonation and the saddle compensation may not be correct. When added up, they just might be able to cause such an extreme intonation issue...

Two definite possible culprits, though I doubt they would add up to that much error, especially w/the rest of the strings being good.

Originally Posted by ChalkLitIScream

...It could also be the nut which is the issue. Either the height is too high and the first few notes will be sharp ( or in another perspective, all the other notes sound flat) and/or the nut was placed in the wrong place...Try a capo on the 2nd fret, tune it up, and then see how intonation is. If its good, then there's an issue at the nut end.

Very insightful, though it sounds more likely that the string contact point in the nut slot may be wrong. Your capo test is spot on! Assuming the guitar needs a new saddle & nut, it'll likely be more than $75, but probably less than $150.

[jazzguy]

How bout just putting new strings on it to see - or at least the one string? Small investment to see if this is the right guitar for you. If that does not correct it, personally I would move on to another guitar. There are too many decent $300-400 guitars to choose from. That was not always the case, but today you can get a very decent guitar for that $.

[DenverSteve]

Likely a good set up, w/ new strings and maybe having a new compensated saddle will take care of it. Likely $125-$150 depending on where you are.

[Dru Edwards]

Originally Posted by Gasworker

Not all talking guitars tell the truth.

Isn't that the truth, Gas.

[beninma]

It seems like nut/saddle/string could fix it but that does sound like it is really far out.

Just for comparison plenty of electric guitars have a built in ability to adjust intonation by a greater magnitude than is possible by changing the compensation on the saddle + nut. I'd say my fender has about 1/3" an inch or of adjustment available. I've had to completely disassemble and reassemble the bridge/saddles before and 1/3" of adjustment is not enough to make the intonation off by as much this guitar seems to be off by.

I'd probably just look for another D Jr.

[redir]

As others have mentioned the old strings very well may be the cause.