Track with Tonedexter Character Comparison

[BluesKing777]

I recorded a longish track with a few sections with different Character knob settings, using my Maton SRS808 guitar. (AP5-Pro pickup with just undersaddle on).


1. Acoustic only with Neumann KM184 - mic just below soundhole 5 or 6 inches out, all eq flat.


2. Tonedexter recorded with KM184 - Character full right.


3. Tonedexter - Character full left.


4. Tonedexter - Character 1/4 turn from left.


5.Tonedexter - Character half way.


6. Tonedexter - Character 3/4 turn from left.


7. Tonedexter - Character full right again but slightly different playing.


https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/mt-td77b




Edit: I thought I should add a track with the Maton direct from AP5-Pro pickup system to my mixer/Mac - the first part is dry, eq flat and the 2nd part is with the mixer reverb/delay added - I am used to playing with the reverb, so feel more comfortable with it....


https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/mt-td77c



BluesKing777.

[AeroUSA]

We have the same results. The Map is missing some of the high end air of the mic. Do you add treble to solve this?

[BluesKing777]

I left all eq flat, Tonedexter, mixer, Imac.

I think I unconciously sped up the tune when it didn’t have the ‘air’ or ‘sustain’ or plain old ‘life’ that is missing from the wavemaps compared to the acoustic recording.

The Maton undersaddle piezo pickup has been used by lots of Australians before they added a condenser mic for probably Tommy E. Without the mic, they sound good in an amp, but add the mic and a soundhole plug and it sounds incredible direct to a mixer and PA.

But you can’t realistically put a Maton dual source pickup in other guitars you may like to electrify, so hence Auras/Tonedexters! And I think the TD on a 1/4 turn like above in section 4 of my recording would work very well live.

I’m still (impatiently) waiting for my luthier to get back to me about some K&K installations....starting with one, but if it is a success in TonedexterVille, well...he could be even busier than he is now!

On another note about eq, the other day I plugged TD through my Boss VE8 and used the dusty bit - my unit’s looper. Once that was repeating, I experimented with fine tuning the eq in the mixer. But I ended up turning everything back to flat, liking the TD files better like that.


BluesKing777.

[AeroUSA]

I don’t like the K&K at all. I’m wondering if you prefer the Maton undersaddle with TD or the Maton undersaddle with the built in mic the most.

[BluesKing777]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

I don’t like the K&K at all. I’m wondering if you prefer the Maton undersaddle with TD or the Maton undersaddle with the built in mic the most.

Don’t like The K? I have never owned one, but keep reading here how everyone likes them. In the past, I have generally gone for Fishman undersaddle because they work well with my Aura Spectrum. But I have some Lowdens with split saddles with awful existing pickups and was thinking the K would be easier after ripping out the old ones.

Now the Maton with undersaddle and mic on full, is hard to beat, just plug her in to the PA. Boom! It won’t ever sound like my acoustic recording above though, still sounds electric BUT it has the same ‘feel’ as acoustic because of the great pickup system, not forgetting the sweepable mids on the preamp right in front of your face! But if you want loud, you need the soundhole plug. As I speak, there could be innumerable Australian guitarists doing just that at bars...clubs..concerts. It sounds great and is easy for even a couple of dopes I know that cringe in fear at the Aura Spectrum. TD, forget about it!

Now Maton and Tonedexter..... since I bought my Maton 808 size (deep body 00 size) and fell in love, I have seen some old troubadours weilding some beat up early models - first came out in about ‘78, I believe. The Ap5-Pro didn’t come out until about 2013, so most of the old models have no pickup or just various versions of the undersaddle piezo. So if I got hold of one of these scarred up old 808s, Aura is no good to me, no image match.....and then......Tonedexter!


BluesKing777.

[guitaniac]

Bluesking777,

I thought there were only three available character settings (CH2, CH1 and CH0). Do you have the firmware upgrade (V1.30 which was released on 1/12/2018) which enables you to blend some raw pickup signal with the WaveMap?

[BluesKing777]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Bluesking777,

I thought there were only three available character settings (CH2, CH1 and CH0). Do you have the firmware upgrade (V1.30 which was released on 1/12/2018) which enables you to blend some raw pickup signal with the WaveMap?

Yes, I have the upgrade V1.30, and I really like a 50% mix with raw pickup. My previous Aura experience picks that blend as ‘workable’ for me. YMMV.

The Maton undersaddle is a very strong signal - not sure what difference it makes.

BluesKing777.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by BluesKing777

Yes, I have the upgrade V1.30, and I really like a 50% mix with raw pickup. My previous Aura experience picks that blend as ‘workable’ for me. YMMV.

The Maton undersaddle is a very strong signal - not sure what difference it makes.

BluesKing777.

Would sample #4 (quarter turn from left) be closest to that 50/50 pickup/WaveMap blend?

[BluesKing777]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Would sample #4 (quarter turn from left) be closest to that 50/50 pickup/WaveMap blend?

Yes, sample 4 is 50/50 blend, works great with other wavemap/guitars I have done so far. I think it gives the sound ‘detail’.


BluesKing777.

[Puerto Player]

The mic sounded great, everything else kind of compressed, some more than others. Everything but the mic kind of lost the string separation and 3D nature of your guitar...I thought.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by BluesKing777

Yes, sample 4 is 50/50 blend, works great with other wavemap/guitars I have done so far. I think it gives the sound ‘detail’.


BluesKing777.

Sample #4 does indeed sound good to me. I don't doubt that it would be even more appropriate in a live setting where the performance space is contributing to the sound ambiance. My concern would be that I'd also be blending in some quack with strumming accompaniments. That's been the case with Mama Bear and Aura when using my preferred blends.

[BluesKing777]

The Neumann KM184 is well known for recording an acoustic guitar ‘as is’ and I have been extremely pleased with it since I bought it a couple of years ago. But not many people would use it live, because it will pick up very clearly...everything going on around you.....finger noises, mouth noises, shirt noises etc in close, and the lady up the back of the gig having a quiet chat to a friend will be in the mix too! Unfortunately!

Quack destruction is one of the mission statements for Tonedexter, isn’t it? I suppose at the crux of it, that is why I bought it. Works great! I should have done a track with just the undersaddle quacking - what was I thinking? Though I have had previous replies with people liking the quacky sounds with an Aura guitar comparison! True!

The Maton AP5-Pro with the undersaddle on its own is not a hugely quacky pickup for some reason, but it IS there. Enough to need the condenser mic dual source, but people have been belting out that (Maton pickup) sound at pub gigs here since it was first installed in a Maton!

I am fascinated by this Tonedexter!


BluesKing777.

[BluesKing777]

So, I added a recording I just did with a different approach with similar playing - 3 sections on the track:

1. Maton with just undersaddle piezo of AP5-Pro system.

2. Maton with undersaddle and inbuilt condenser mic of AP5-Pro system

3. Maton with JUST undersaddle and run through Tonedexter wavemap from earlier tracks with the 50/50 character setting (1/4 turn from left)..... (I tried to keep the same level but I peaked it a bit at the end!)


https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/mt-td77d



BluesKing777.

[Gordon Currie]

Nice job on the examples.

#1 is a good quality piezo that seems to have a reasonable amount of quack (meaning it is usable in a lot of situations). #2 is a significant improvement in realism. #3 is so far beyond!!!

(I used a dual source system for over 30 years (UST and mini condenser). While I got some great sounds (especially for the times), something that always bothered me was that the mic signal was not truly representative, as I would never place a mic inside of a guitar.)

This shows off ToneDexter quite well. You should see if James May needs more examples as you appear to be quite good at creating them.

[AeroUSA]

Bluesking I would have preferred to hear 1. Maton UST 2. Maton with mic 3. Maton with TD fully to the right character setting 2.