American breaks guitars

[Gcunplugged]

We all know the story of “United breaks guitars”. Well American has now followed their lead, and hit home with a friend of mine.

If you’re so inclined, please share George’s experience so we can collectively turn up the heat on this.

https://www.facebook.com/gary.cochra...78236675532688

And yes, he tried to carry-on, but was denied...

Thanks,
Gary

[Orfeas]

Has he communicated with the AA's claims department? If so, what did they say?

[Gcunplugged]

It gets even better.

Initial response from AA; “not,our fault, it was TSA”...

[Orfeas]

Originally Posted by Gcunplugged

It gets even better.

Initial response from AA; “not,our fault, it was TSA”...

Ohhh nooooo.

[Jim]

TSA is a completely separate and unrelated organization from American or any other airline. If it was TSA then it is not honest to try to raise public outcry against the airline and you should be making such an effort against the TSA instead, though you need to first find out just how it happened.

That said, it is hard to see in the photos how that damage was done. That hard shell case I see in the background seems to be the type that would prevent such damage but I cannot see the lower area of the case. Was that part of the case shredded or seriously crushed? That would take some serious force and effort on a case like that.

Also, I really feel for you, but is your guitar case an ATA rated flight case with a TSA approved lock? Something like a Calton or maybe even just a Gator if you need to save money? If it has a lock that is not TSA approved then the TSA can and does break non-TSA approved locks to get into things to examine them. A priceless guitar that is taken traveling needs such a case especially since there is no requirement for airlines to let you bring your guitar into the cabin if it does not fit in the overhead and these days with most flights booked at 90 percent to 100 percent capacity it is not something you should count on. Many airlines try to accommodate them to the extent they have room, but they are not required to do so unless you have bought a seat for it.

[Big Band Guitar]

My flight case is a good one it even had a diagram on the on the inside cover. There is a certain way the foam pieces need to be placed around the hard case.

Well.

It was inspected by TSA put back in the flight case and the foam pieces tossed in on top.

TSA leaves a card in your luggage when it is inspected.

It arrived ok but was held up for a day.

TSA flushed any value of a flight case by not repacking correctly.

I was lucky because I had to sign off the airline having no responsibility for damage or they would not allow it on the plane.

On the return trip I packed my dirty underwear and socks all around the area between the flight case and the guitar case. Unfortunately it wasn't inspected on the return trip.

[guitar george]

That guitar is busted! What type of case was it in? The case must be badly damaged as well. Should be quite easy to prove that the airline damaged them.

[Gcunplugged]

As for the statement; they are not required to let you carry it on unless you bought a ticket for it

That is incorrect, as stated in the policy here, which has been in effect for over a year now.

https://www.transportation.gov/brief...travel-musical

Conveniently, in paragraph 4, they left themselves a huge loophole regarding “space available at time of boarding”. But that was not the case here, as the Guitar was forced to be checked before he boarded.

[ManyMartinMan]

Originally Posted by Gcunplugged

As for the statement; they are not required to let you carry it on unless you bought a ticket for it

That is incorrect, as stated in the policy here, which has been in effect for over a year now.

https://www.transportation.gov/brief...travel-musical

Conveniently, in paragraph 4, they left themselves a huge loophole regarding “space available at time of boarding”. But that was not the case here, as the Guitar was forced to be checked before he boarded.

While it is unfortunate that your friend's guitar was damaged, that's what insurance is for. Hopefully he/she is fully insured with Clarion or similar so they don't have to deal with TSA or an airline.

As far as Jim's statement being incorrect, it actually is completely true. They don't HAVE to let you carry anything on when there is not space available - in their opinion. This is borne out in your own statement when you cited their own regulation by calling it a huge loophole. The airline always has the final say on what is appropriate or what there is room for onboard their plane.

[Jim]

It is not the passenger's determination as to whether there is space available at time of boarding - it is the Airline's and their agents. The passenger has no "right" beyond that which the airline decides to grant on each individual instance. They may allow it on one flight, but not allow it on the next connecting flight or a return flight or a subsequent flight. Counting on a guitar being allowed in the cabin as carry-on is neither a right nor a good idea.

All of that aside, you mentioned that the airline advised you that it was not their actions, but that of TSA. Assuming that is accurate your issue is not with the airline at all. It is entirely with TSA and you should focus on that rather than trying to use existing frustrations among musicians with some of the airlines to advance your complaint.

[rokdog49]

As someone who has traveled extensively for business, I feel for the airlines regarding "carry on's".
The abuse I have seen by some people over the years is beyond the pale. The poor flight attendants doing their best to accommodate passengers with their "stuff" has made me want to side with them most of the time.
Having said all that, I feel in this instance the combination of the TSA and their responsibilities as well as the airline and theirs is always a recipe for finger pointing when damage occurs.
It's a no win situation.
If I am traveling and need or want to take a guitar, I ship it. That's it.

[actaylor]

I still believe airlines have this whole baggage thing backwards. Let folks check bags for free. Charge them for carry on. This would drastically cut down on vacationing travelers hauling bags onto the plane. Business travelers would probably pay to carry on. I'd pay to carry a guitar on. Boarding and unboarding the plane would probably go faster, helping with improved on-time departures.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by actaylor

I still believe airlines have this whole baggage thing backwards. Let folks check bags for free. Charge them for carry on. This would drastically cut down on vacationing travelers hauling bags onto the plane. Business travelers would probably pay to carry on. I'd pay to carry a guitar on. Boarding and unboarding the plane would probably go faster, helping with improved on-time departures.

Great idea. In fact and specific to musical instruments,the airlines could take a portion of the fee and apply it to an insurance policy they purchase specifically to handle claims. They could even use it as a marketing tool to draw musicians. The difficulty would be you would have to fly that airline from point of departure to point of destination.
Sadly, it makes too much sense for them to do this.

[Klimski]

Originally Posted by actaylor

I still believe airlines have this whole baggage thing backwards. Let folks check bags for free. Charge them for carry on. This would drastically cut down on vacationing travelers hauling bags onto the plane. Business travelers would probably pay to carry on. I'd pay to carry a guitar on. Boarding and unboarding the plane would probably go faster, helping with improved on-time departures.

I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately, it's a question of follow the money (again). Handling checked baggage comes at an expense for the airline, if they get you to lug baggage it costs them nothing but annoyed staff and passengers - which they think has no actual dollar cost.

[bsman]

This is precisely why I bought a Journey Overhead OF420. I had been flying with my little Emerald X7, but increasingly have been having to gate-check it as more and more overhead space is taken up by people avoiding the now-ubiquitous charges for checking luggage (which has made billions for the airlines - for something that used to be free...) You are never guaranteed cabin space for a guitar. Even though the Emerald is CF, it is not indestructable, and I have not had any trouble with the Journey -- been able to carry it on every flight since I bought it in Sept.