saddle adjustment in middle

[KingIgneous]

okay so I've been looking throughout my repair books and can't find answer anywhere. I want to set my treble side to 2/32 and bass to 3/32 from 12th fret to string, the question is what do i set the height for the 3rd and 4th strings? is this where saddle compensation comes into play? how do I know which compensation fits my guitar?
when I lower the saddle height, do I lower one height more then the other or is it equally adjusted so I can lower it easily?
thank you

[ChrisN]

There's a good thread in here that I started asking something about saddle height and got lots of great info, so read through the responses. http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=483869

I ended up following post #6 (by Murrmac123) determining my big E action height in inches, not fractions, then adjusting the saddle from the top to achieve a .004" drop from E to A, etc. I can't find the other thread, but there's more particulars: WAIT, HERE'S THE OTHER THREAD: http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...light=subtract READ THEM BOTH.

[charles Tauber]

Chris,

It is considered good form that if you are going to copy what somewhat else wrote - in this case me - to give credit to the author.



Saddle compensation has nothing to do with setting the height of the strings. Compensation is the lengthening of the vibrating string length to improve the intonation of the instrument - the ability of the instrument to achieve the desired pitches. Practically, compensation at the saddle is achieved by altering where the strings break over the saddle by bevelling the top surface of the saddle. Compensation is generally set empirically. One common method of getting into the ballpark is to set the string length for each string so that the 12th fret harmonic is the same pitch as the 12th fretted note. That doesn't achieve the best result but is close for many purposes.

Setting the action and intonation (compensation) well involves more than simply sanding the bottom of a saddle.

[KingIgneous]

Originally Posted by ChrisN

There's a good thread in here that I started asking something about saddle height and got lots of great info, so read through the responses. http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=483869

I ended up following post #6 (by Murrmac123) determining my big E action height in inches, not fractions, then adjusting the saddle from the top to achieve a .004" drop from E to A, etc. I can't find the other thread, but there's more particulars: WAIT, HERE'S THE OTHER THREAD: http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...light=subtract READ THEM BOTH.


Getting String Height/Action at Board
Conventionally, for most players, what they want is a drop of .020" between the E string action and the e string action. So, for example, if the E string action is .100" , then the e string action will be .080". If the E string action is stipulated to be .080", then the e string action would normally be .060".

The optimum method for the intermediate strings is to have an incremental drop in action of .004" per string ... so for example with a .100" E string action the A string action will be .096", the D string action will be .092", the G string action will be .088", the B string action will be .084", which takes us back to the e string which is of course .080".
With a .060 E and .040 e – 6 - .060, 5 - .056, 4 - .052, 3 - .048, 2 - .044, 1 - .040

Now, geometrically , this doesn't work with any kind of predetermined radius, and the unfortunate reality is that although you can set the saddle correctly for the E and the e strings right from the git-go, the optimum height for the intermediate strings can only be achieved by filing from the top of the saddle.

This can be done in situ, or it can also be done with the saddle off the guitar and held in a vise, if you can measure with sufficient accuracy.
Measuring/Cutting Saddle
For each string, measure the height from the top of the 12th fret to the bottom of the string. Write that down. Write down what string height you want to have for each string. Subtract the height you want from the height you have. Write that down. Double the difference between what you have and what you want. Write that down: that is how much must be removed at the saddle to achieve the string height you want.

Measure the height of the saddle at each of the string locations. Write down those measurements. Subtract from those measurements the amount, previously calculated/written down, that needs to be removed from the saddle height for each respective string. Write that down. That is the final height of the saddle necessary to achieve the string height you want at the 12th fret.
320 grit for file marks, then Meguiars Fine Cut Cleaner (compound)

wow thanks that was a lot of help, so if I'm gonna drop.the /32 stuff, what should I measure in. what kind of measurement is .004?

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Chris,

It is considered good form that if you are going to copy what somewhat else wrote - in this case me - to give credit to the author.

My apologies Charles - Subject to the issues presented in the following paragraph, I assumed reference to the threads and their contents, including their authors, would be apparent once the OP read the threads. Your information was very helpful to me, and I am grateful.

As for the excerpted content from the threads, please know that I'd previously created my own notes collected from the various threads, as I'd cut/pasted from several responses (albeit uncredited) to create a usable note for myself in my virtual guitar notes file. When I could not find the second thread, and in a hurry to live more life while it was in me, I pasted my note contents in response so the OP would at least have something to work with. Since I could not at first locate the second thread, I was unable to re-read it to appropriately credit in my post the various sections of my notes to their respective authors. Once I managed to find the second thread, and keeping in mind I'd already spent in excess of 20 minutes trying to find the answer for the OP, I was late for dinner out and unable to re-read the threads for the purpose of crediting the various authors for their contributions. In retrospect, I should have taken the time to simply remove the excerpted note content, once I'd managed to locate the second thread, and limited my input to referring the OP to the subject threads, to be done with it. I'm afraid it never occurred to me that anyone might think that that great information should be sourced to me, of all people!

Again, please accept my apologies.

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by KingIgneous

wow thanks that was a lot of help, so if I'm gonna drop.the /32 stuff, what should I measure in. what kind of measurement is .004?

Good luck, and godspeed. Seriously, and this is just from me, there are 3 measurements you can use - millimeters, inches measured in fractions (yours), and inches measured in decimals. You want to start with decimals, or you can convert fractions to decimals -Google "convert fractions to decimals". You should get a set of automotive feeler gauges that show in thousandths of an inch to measure between the fret tops and the string bottoms. I also have a cool digital caliper that shows all 3 forms of measurement - they're cheap enough and good for this purpose (measuring saddle height via a dropdown polepiece).

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by ChrisN

...please accept my apologies.

Accepted. Thank you.

This is more or less the process I use: http://charlestauber.com/luthier/Res...May%202015.pdf

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Accepted. Thank you.

This is more or less the process I use: http://charlestauber.com/luthier/Res...May%202015.pdf

And my humble thanks (again) to you - your guide means I finally have a reason to create a separate Set Up Info folder. The OP is referred to p. 9 of the guide. I found the section on intonation especially informative - that's my next hurdle, though mine is close enough that it can await the next string change.

[KingIgneous]

okay thanks folks. the drop of the d and g string wont cause fretbuzz though? i read everywhere that they need to be higher, and with \most of my guitars, the height for d and g seem to be higher

[printer2]

It was a time before Google, Youtube, Photobucket, Twitter and Facebook

Charles, how OLD are you?

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by KingIgneous

okay thanks folks. the drop of the d and g string wont cause fretbuzz though? i read everywhere that they need to be higher, and with \most of my guitars, the height for d and g seem to be higher

I think it depends on where you start on the E. I like .060 (about 4/64) and, lowering each following string by .004, I get no buzzing on d and g on a 15-16" radius fretboard. However, if your nut or frets aren't in good shape, you could get some buzzing, so it'd be safer to go higher, to start. If you want to go low, best go with a pro, if you aren't proficient in adjusting nut/frets/saddle.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by printer2

Charles, how OLD are you?

Old enough to have used computer punch cards and mainframe word processing. Old enough to have a Palm Pilot and still miss it. ;-) (I still have my two Palm Pilots, but they don't synchronize with any OS even remotely modern.)

People forget just how recent most of the commonly-used electronic/computer-based technology is. Google, for example, was founded in 1998, only 20 years ago. Youtube was established in 2005; Facebook 2004; Photobucket, 2003; Twitter, 2006. The first iPhone was released in 2007.

The idea of being able to share photos, look up all kinds of information, make and share video, share with millions of people whatever little thing is on your mind when you think of it - thanks very much Mr. Trump - and socially interact "on-line" are all pretty new abilities in the history of humans. Not to mention "on-line dating". Although this stuff if just part of our daily existence these days, and we take much of it for granted, much of it is less than 20 years old.

I wrote the article on guitar setup in the late 1990's. At that time, one couldn't Google for guitar setup information, watch the latest Youtube videos on how to setup your guitar or discuss it on-line with many leading luthiers - Bruce, Howard, Steve, and others - or leading repair people, such as Frank or Steve. Technology can be wonderful. Sometimes it even is.

In 1977, I attended the only North American school of guitar making that existed at the time: it was run by Charles Fox. I'm 57, though often grumpier than my years.

[Tony Done]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Accepted. Thank you.

This is more or less the process I use: http://charlestauber.com/luthier/Res...May%202015.pdf

I daresay I could find this in the links, but it's easier to ask here. Do you set the curvature of the saddle the same as the fretbaord radius, or something different?

[Rodger Knox]

Originally Posted by Tony Done

I daresay I could find this in the links, but it's easier to ask here. Do you set the curvature of the saddle the same as the fretbaord radius, or something different?

Some people set the action height on each string and don't worry about the radius. Some set the high and low string action and use a radius in between. Both ways work, there's only a few thousandths of an inch difference between the two. Some use fretboard radius, or just a little longer radius.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Tony Done

Do you set the curvature of the saddle the same as the fretbaord radius ...

No. As Rodger described, I don't pay any attention to fretboard radius. I set the height I want for each string then make the saddle to achieve those heights. The saddle top can then be stepped, with one step for each height, or it can be a continuous curve that hits the six heights where the strings cross the saddle.

Others use the fretboard radius, or some scheme related to it. That works as well.