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  #61  
Old 05-08-2017, 06:17 PM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Originally Posted by LookerBob View Post
Yeah, I try to control as much as I possibly can. If I have to forgo everything, I have to forgo everything, but I'll take great tone 95% of the time over okay tone 100% of the time... I mean, if we're looking at ToneDexter we're all sorta cork sniffers to begin with, right?
There's no doubt that I'm fascinated by ToneDexter and the experiences which folks are having with it. Still, I think Matt is making the right decision not to yank a beloved pickup on the basis of some anecdotal evidence that the Pure Mini might be more compatible with ToneDexter. Perhaps its relevant that I've already been caught up in the excitement of two previous "magic box" introductions, but ended up opting to sell the boxes and keep using some preferred pickups which were poorly compatible with the boxes.

I truly hope that ToneDexter will be the "magic box" to end magic boxes, but (IMO) its a little too early to yank a state-of-the-art beloved pickup for it.
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  #62  
Old 05-08-2017, 06:58 PM
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martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Originally Posted by open-road-matt View Post
Hard to argue with that!



If I can get the Trance where I want it, I think I'll count that has having my cake and eating it too!



I did like it outside yesterday so I have to remember that. And I can crank it up pretty good inside on my little speaker (TC Helicon VoiceSolo FX150.)



When I run it through the EON One and crank it up, I start to get into trouble.



Granted: 1) I'm turing up the volume WAY too loud for the room I'm in and 2) I don't have my mixer (in for repairs) so I don't have access to the EQ I would have most of the time at a show.



Matt


Hopefully you can get that worked out. Many of us agree that the Trance is one of the best pickups out there. Having it compatible with Tonedexter would be a great combo. Nevertheless, that J45 sounds like it's a match made in heaven. Also, you're bound to run into gigs/situations where the Tonedexter isn't the right outboard gear. Who know? Maybe your Collings with Amulet will come in handy.


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  #63  
Old 05-08-2017, 10:35 PM
urlkonig urlkonig is offline
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Originally Posted by James May View Post
Another position we recommend trying (that didn't make it into the user guide) is about 1.5 ft above the nut, pointed back down at the sound hole.

In general, more distance from the guitar will give a more even, less bassy response.
More distance helped ( I tried 15" and 20" away from the neck join with the condenser and the 57), but perhaps because it's a J45, the bass is still pretty strong. I can pull it down sufficiently with the Bass trim knob.

The goofy midrange honk I was getting (on a D#-E on the B string) turned out to be a resonance of the EON 10 I was using -- I switched to a larger powered speaker, and the midrange weirdness was greatly diminished.
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  #64  
Old 05-09-2017, 09:49 AM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Got my ToneDexter yesterday--Wow! It came quickly!--but I just started a new job yesterday afternoon, so I won't get to play with it until the weekend. Darn It!
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  #65  
Old 05-09-2017, 10:03 AM
midwinter midwinter is offline
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Fiddling around with the TD last night, I tossed an Empress ParaEQ in the loop to see if I could tame the honk. While the TD without the EQ is, to me, a totally acceptable live sound, with the EQ it's really pretty fantastic.
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  #66  
Old 05-09-2017, 11:24 AM
TNO TNO is offline
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I wonder how well the ToneDexter would work with, say, a ribbon mic or a old Beyerdynamic dynamic mic? Would it model the character of the mic?
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  #67  
Old 05-09-2017, 03:10 PM
LookerBob LookerBob is offline
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Different mics certainly sound different through it, so I don't see why not. Not sure if you saw my post a bit back, but it compares two different high end condensers (across two different sets of clips, mind you).

Last night I finally spent some time w/ my acoustic amp and my TD and found the magic sauce, which was to really yank mids out on the amp EQ - doing that got me so close to the un-amplified sound of the guitar that I had a hard time feeling like I was amplified to begin with...

...which led me to a thought.

Do you think that due to the scooped characteristics of basically any/all UST/SBT pickups, which are in probably 90%+ of electrified acoustics, that amp manufacturers set a high initial midpoint, or to put it another way, that they boost mids out of the gate to compensate for those tendencies in pickups, so that when someone gets their new amp home it sounds 'good' on default EQ settings? Made me wonder... acoustics and TD'd sounds have that mid range to begin with, so things might come through as too mid heavy without rolling them off?

Anyway, it was an 'a-ha!' moment for me... which, of course, introduced the next challenge:

If I DI out of my amp w/ the mixed signal, if I need to turn the amp up for myself on stage, it will turn it up in the mains...

If I DI out of the amp on the channel signal, it is pre-EQ...

So how to get the sound I want out to the sound guy to begin with?

Hrm...
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  #68  
Old 05-09-2017, 03:29 PM
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James May James May is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LookerBob View Post
...

If I DI out of the amp on the channel signal, it is pre-EQ...

So how to get the sound I want out to the sound guy to begin with?

Hrm...
From ToneDexter you can use the XLR out to the sound guy, and use the 1/4" output to feed your amp with any EQ settings that work.
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  #69  
Old 05-09-2017, 03:44 PM
LookerBob LookerBob is offline
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Originally Posted by James May View Post
From ToneDexter you can use the XLR out to the sound guy, and use the 1/4" output to feed your amp with any EQ settings that work.
Yeah, which I actually did at our gig Saturday (Friday I went out of the DI on the amp)... not being in the crowd, I'm not sure what they were getting, but I wonder if I need/want to cut mids how I could accomplish that at the TD level?

Maybe you can help me out with some explanation of what the EQ on TD is doing, James?
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  #70  
Old 05-09-2017, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by LookerBob View Post
Yeah, which I actually did at our gig Saturday (Friday I went out of the DI on the amp)... not being in the crowd, I'm not sure what they were getting, but I wonder if I need/want to cut mids how I could accomplish that at the TD level?

Maybe you can help me out with some explanation of what the EQ on TD is doing, James?
From the user guide:
Bass and Treble
These are shelving equalizers that boost or cut 9dB. The inflection points are 125Hz for bass, and 2KHz for treble.

So, bass will adjust up or down below 125Hz, treble with adjust up or down above 2KHz. Keep in mind there is a slope and transition region around these inflection points.
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  #71  
Old 05-09-2017, 04:15 PM
LookerBob LookerBob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James May View Post
From the user guide:
Bass and Treble
These are shelving equalizers that boost or cut 9dB. The inflection points are 125Hz for bass, and 2KHz for treble.

So, bass will adjust up or down below 125Hz, treble with adjust up or down above 2KHz. Keep in mind there is a slope and transition region around these inflection points.
So... pushing both up equal amounts should effectively result in a cut in mids, while pushing both down equal amounts should effectively result in a boost in mids...

But on a very wide range...

Last edited by LookerBob; 05-09-2017 at 04:22 PM.
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  #72  
Old 05-10-2017, 03:29 PM
urlkonig urlkonig is offline
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I have made several wavemaps with both an SM57 and an AKG condenser mic, and all have ended up bass-heavy with more midrange honk than I'd like. I ordered a TRS Y cable to put an EQ into the effects loop -- I'll see what can be done about tone shaping once that arrives.
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  #73  
Old 05-10-2017, 03:50 PM
Racerbob Racerbob is offline
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I experienced a similar situation. The wavemap had more bass than the mic'ed guitar. What I did was reposition the mic to produce a more treble heavy sound and then trained that way. The resulting wavemap was then much closer to the "ideal" mic sound.

Worked on one guitar, haven't tried it on any others yet.
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  #74  
Old 05-10-2017, 03:58 PM
urlkonig urlkonig is offline
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Originally Posted by Racerbob View Post
I experienced a similar situation. The wavemap had more bass than the mic'ed guitar. What I did was reposition the mic to produce a more treble heavy sound and then trained that way. The resulting wavemap was then much closer to the "ideal" mic sound.
Racerbob -- what mic position did you use?
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  #75  
Old 05-11-2017, 09:16 AM
Racerbob Racerbob is offline
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One needs to keep in mind that each guitar is unique and may require a very different mic location to get the tone that is desired. Neumann has a great set of videos on the subject at :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aivxxQLK9Qw

In this specific case I was recording my McPherson Sable which I found worked best for a mic'ed sound placing the KM148 slightly above the strings aimed half way between the bridge and the end of the sound hole (or kidney shaped opening !). But the Wavemap had too much low end. I tried several positions and found moving the mic opposite the 14th fret but aiming it back toward the start of the sound hole gave a brighter mic sound but produced a wavemap much more like the original desired mic sound.

You will have to experiment to find out what direction to go for your guitar.
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