My LR Baggs Venue Experience

janmulder · #1 10-12-2014, 03:42 AM

I had the pleasure of trying out an LR Baggs Venue for a few days to see how it compared with my regular equipment. For those collecting others' experiences of various equipment it may be of interest ... and so I thought I'd share my experince. I must stress that this is just a personal experience (that reflects my setup and tastes) and in no way would I wish anyone to make any sort of purchasing decision due my findings.

My regular live setup is an older Stanford OM5v with Lyric pickup going through Carl Martin Parametric EQ -> Tonebone PZ Pre -> AER Compact 60 -> DI out amp to desk.

This gives me quite a good sound and a reasonable amount of control when I need it. Ideally, I'd like the sound to be a little warmer or fuller but really at the moment this is just nitpicking (as we guitarists like to do).

A parallel quest of mine is to simplify my equipment ... which again is nitpicking because some would say it's quite simple already.

So the opportunity to use the Venue was very welcome as I could try to use just this between guitar and amp or guitar and PA ... that would mean just one device and battery powered if needed. At the moment I have two and both require different types of power.

So here are my findings ...

Unfortunately, I just couldn't get the required cuts in EQ where it was needed for the Lyric in my guitar. I got very close at times but still got a slightly boxy and/or honky sound requiring a bit more cut somewhere at 300-400 and possibly 800-1000hz. With the venue just on its own I was unable to get the sound I wanted. However, worse than that was the guitar sounded overall thinner and always slightly metallic at higher volumes. Others in the band commented this and someone played me a recording of the band where it was clearly audible through the PA.

Another point, I expected the notch filter to be effective which it was but I was surprised at how much it changed the character of the sound. I tried sweeping the dial and listening to the sound change. I had expected not to hear anything but to me it made quite a difference. I remember Doug once saying it's amazing how one man's subtle effect is another man's enormous effect ... so some out there might not find it such an issue. However, I can only compare to my Tonebone to which I'd say the notch really doesn't affect the tone a fraction as much as here. I think the notch bandwidth is a tad to wide .. which is possibly why it's so effective. You could almost use it as a tone control to dial out some nasty sound.

Anyway, when I got home I gave it my all to dial in an optimum sound and again I always came slightly short. I really wanted to have it work but on its own I just couldn't get there. The real shock came when I plugged in my regular EQ/DI combo ... it just sounded much richer, warmer and gone was the metallic overtones. No idea where they came from ... I suppose the Lyric must be churning these sounds out and somehow the Venue is bringing them to the for.

I must stress, this is a result that is with my setup. I've heard the Venue with several other folks and it sounds great. If it works, it is a great piece of kit ... really sturdy, surprisingly small, easy to use, battery powered if needed ... I even liked the much maligned tuner! But alas, it was not for me and it was sent back home.

So, the message of the story is not that one piece of equipment here is better or worse but rather that no matter how good something is or how much it is recommended to you, you really really need to try it out yourself. When we say YMMV ... it is very true ... everyone's mileage will vary.

joeguam · #2 10-12-2014, 02:19 PM

Hi Jan, thank you very much for taking the time and effort to write this up, I appreciated it. I have the venue and find that it works absolutely great with my instruments equipped with K&K pure minis. The Lyric is a very different pickup, so I would bet that it will be different with the venue as you described. You're spot on, we really must try things out in our specific signal chain as everyone has something different that could make or break you sound.

Thanks again!

Yamaha Man · #3 10-12-2014, 02:36 PM

I've read lots of reviews and watched videos where everybody seems to really like the Venue. Your's is the first that didn't like it. I've got a Venue coming this week that I'll be trying out with the Lyric, a Martin Gold Line UST, and when I get my D-18 back from the luthier, I'll be trying it out on the M1A.

joeguam · #4 10-12-2014, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djwayne

I've read lots of reviews and watched videos where everybody seems to really like the Venue. Your's is the first that didn't like it.

djwayne, could it be that dakedi just didn't like the sound of the Venue as compared to current rig? An interesting thought here is, how would her review of the Venue be if she didn't already have top-quality equipment like the Tonebone and AER Compact?

Doug Young · #5 10-12-2014, 02:56 PM

The Venue offers a *lot* of EQ, which makes it pretty easy to dial in a very bad sound :-) It may take a bit of practice. The more knobs, the more of a learning curve. I'd start flat always, and then *very* subtly add in a bit of what you need. The Lyric may be contributing a bit to your issues, as well, tho as we've seen here, opinions and experiences are all over the map with it - from demonstrated very nice sounds with absolutely no EQ, to those who report there's not enough EQ anywhere to do what they need. But in any case, it's always the total signal chain that matters from fingers to PA, so experience will vary.

The notch filter (any notch filter I've ever tried) will definitely affect the sound, you can just spin it at pre-feedback levels,and hear the effect. I'd consider a notch filter to be there only for a case of the lesser of two evils: do you want a compromised tone, or a wall of feedback? Ideally, you solve feedback without a notch filter, leaving the notch filter for an absolute "the show must go on" last resort. There's practically no way they won't affect the tone, and a deep EQ cut added by a notch filter tends to create exactly the type of weird, honky/boxy effect you're describing.

Yamaha Man · #6 10-12-2014, 03:17 PM

Apparently there's a bit of skill needed to get the best sound out of it. I've watched the demo's of the Lyric on the LR Baggs website and they all seem to be using the Venue and are all getting great sounds with it. If it's good enough for Janis Ian, it's plenty good enough for me.

Many people have suggested that the Lyric pickup needs a little eq help to reach it's potential...

Even Ricky Skaggs is playing thru the Venue in his video...and he's got a whole studio full of gear to work with !!!

.

Vancebo · #7 10-12-2014, 05:01 PM

I am one of those that has to EQ the heck out of my lyric as well no matter what I use. My venue doesn't seem as warm as other things I've used. The Venue does have a great feature set though.

janmulder · #8 10-13-2014, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djwayne

Apparently there's a bit of skill needed to get the best sound out of it. I've watched the demo's of the Lyric on the LR Baggs website and they all seem to be using the Venue and are all getting great sounds with it. If it's good enough for Janis Ian, it's plenty good enough for me.

Many people have suggested that the Lyric pickup needs a little eq help to reach it's potential...

Even Ricky Skaggs is playing thru the Venue in his video...and he's got a whole studio full of gear to work with !!!

... don't forget the LR Baggs series of videos are advertising

janmulder · #9 10-13-2014, 05:14 AM

videos where everybody seems to really like the Venue. Your's is the first that didn't like it.

Yes ... indeed. This is one of the reasons I thought I'd post. It is a great piece of kit. It worked fine with some other guitars ... just not with my main live rig. And this can happen.

The Venue offers a *lot* of EQ, which makes it pretty easy to dial in a very bad sound :-) It may take a bit of practice.

Ouch ... that hurt :-) ... actually, I thought the Venue to be quite straight forward ... especially compared to when I had the PADI years back. You're right ... EQ, especially parametric EQ, does take some practice (and is often misunderstood) ... but I think I have enough years on that. One of the problems with EQ many don't realise is if you cut (or boost) too much the bands start to interfere ... it's not just a case of frequency overlap (like undoing with one band what you did with its neighbour) but you get all sorts of secondary interference like phase issues that affect the character of the sound. A common mistake is think a small cut made it better so maybe a bigger cut will make it even better (using it like an on/off switch)! Don't worry ... I past that stage many decades ago :-P

But really, the venue is quite simple ... I think one problem is the two semi parametric bands have a slightly too small Q value ... their bandwidth covers too much. A small cut in level appears to cut a wide range of frequencies. I (like many) try to listen to the frequency that I don't like (before boosting and sweeping for it) ... then boost slightly and sweep the frequency till I find that offending frequency in my head and then cut there a little. With the venue I found it harder to target the bad frequency ... which I usually only find if the Q is too low.

a deep EQ cut added by a notch filter tends to create exactly the type of weird, honky/boxy effect you're describing.

I wasn't actually using the notch filter. I seldom use a notch filter exactly for that reason. I mentioned the notch filter because of the abundant hyperbole reviews out there claiming the Venue notch is totally transparent ... it's not ... not even close (as good notch filters go) ... and I just wanted to get this out there :-)

ukejon · #10 10-13-2014, 06:23 AM

Quote:

My regular live setup is an older Stanford OM5v with Lyric pickup going through Carl Martin Parametric EQ -> Tonebone PZ Pre -> AER Compact 60 -> DI out amp to desk.

Well, your "older" setup is a pretty nice bit of kit! You certainly have lots of different EQ control on both pedals and the amp, and it is all high quality gear. I love my Venue for its basic live benefits but I'd probably trade it for your setup given the chance.

Yamaha Man · #11 10-13-2014, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakedi

... don't forget the LR Baggs series of videos are advertising

Yes they are advertising with a bit of deceit there. No where does it say you need to run the Lyric or any of their pickups thru a DI. The videos show the pickups at their best and sound great, but if you look close you'll see that in everyone of them, the pickups are run thru the Venue. Who know what other polish is added to the sound. Quite comical actually. I suppose that's the same with every pickup though. You need to eq it to compensate for the nuances in your various guitars and room.

DavidE · #12 10-13-2014, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djwayne

I've read lots of reviews and watched videos where everybody seems to really like the Venue. Your's is the first that didn't like it. I've got a Venue coming this week that I'll be trying out with the Lyric, a Martin Gold Line UST, and when I get my D-18 back from the luthier, I'll be trying it out on the M1A.

Definitely not the first who didn't like it. I bought one shortly after they came out and the one I received was very noisy. Lots of hiss/white noise. Perhaps it was defective in some way, but it was unusable for me, so back it went.

DavidE · #13 10-13-2014, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djwayne

Yes they are advertising with a bit of deceit there. No where does it say you need to run the Lyric or any of their pickups thru a DI. The videos show the pickups at their best and sound great, but if you look close you'll see that in everyone of them, the pickups are run thru the Venue. Who know what other polish is added to the sound. Quite comical actually. I suppose that's the same with every pickup though. You need to eq it to compensate for the nuances in your various guitars and room.

The same was true of the Taylor T5. After getting a T5 custom that I thought sounded terrible as either an acoustic or an electric, I studied the demo videos from Taylor. In every "acoustic" video, they ran the T5 through the K4 preamp which was a $500 add on. However, it still sounded magnetic and metallic to me in their videos. I did pick up a used K4 and spent way too much time trying to get it to sound good and ultimately sold both. Never got them to sound good. Sure felt good in my hands though.

Yamaha Man · #14 10-13-2014, 09:02 AM

So DavidE, what did you end up getting that you do like ??

Doug Young · #15 10-13-2014, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakedi

[B]
Ouch ... that hurt :-) .

I didn't mean to be insulting. it's probably just me, but I find it hard to adjust 5 bands of EQ and get it right. All those dials are just begging to be turned, you know :-) I usually use a preamp with no EQ at all, keeps things clean and simple.