Tab for "If I Needed You"

[fjs717]

Does anyone have an accurate fingerpicking tab for Townes Van Zandt's "If I Needed You"? Thanks in advance!

[3rd_harmonic]

make that two requests for that tab.... and any others from TVZ.

[banjar]

Lots of chords and too few tabs at the following link.
There is a skeletal tab for If I Needed You, enough to get you started

http://pnwpest.org/coopl/tvztabs.html

The key to Townes sound is getting the 2nd string hammers, IMO.


Here is another http://www.guitartabguy.com/tab/116373
though that one misses the 1-3 hammer-on that I think is important. I play something that mixes the 2 versions

There is another tab floating around the web for Lyle Lovett's version.

I would like to find a fingerstyle tab for Tecumseh Valley. I have figured out parts of it but not a cohesive whole. But my ear is still developing. I'm sure I'll get it in a few more years.

[fulano]

When I cover songs, it really depends on the song whether I try to play it exactly like the original artist plays it (whether I would need tabs or need to figure out exact picking/strumming patterns, or if I'm ok just knowing the chords and doing my own thing).

For a TVZ song, like "Techumseh Valley" as was mentioned, I generally just travis pick or strum (again depending on the song) in a very general pattern and "make the song my own" vocally. I guess this is mostly from not being a great guitarist or from not wanting to spend a lot of time learning a song which seems to be kind of generic in accompanyment.

Sorry if this hi-jacks your thread. I am just curious if people on the forum feel that playing it exactly correct is important on every cover that you play/perform.

[banjar]

Originally Posted by fulano

When I cover songs, it really depends on the song whether I try to play it exactly like the original artist plays it (whether I would need tabs or need to figure out exact picking/strumming patterns, or if I'm ok just knowing the chords and doing my own thing).

For a TVZ song, like "Techumseh Valley" as was mentioned, I generally just travis pick or strum (again depending on the song) in a very general pattern and "make the song my own" vocally. I guess this is mostly from not being a great guitarist or from not wanting to spend a lot of time learning a song which seems to be kind of generic in accompanyment.

Sorry if this hi-jacks your thread. I am just curious if people on the forum feel that playing it exactly correct is important on every cover that you play/perform.

I do that sometimes too, play much TV in a pattern. Its all I can do at this point. Its something, but its clearly not as good as what he does. I can get a few of of the hammers and little runs from C to F. I can do the little flourish he does in F before heading to C at the end of each verse, which I think is the most important part to get right because it adds ooomph to the lyrics. That makes the song, to me, just like his hammers make If I Needed You. The rest of what he does in TV is rather nondescrpt and I just cant hear it cleanly. Mostly due to inexperience, I'm sure.

My interest in learning to play it the same way as TVZ is not to become a note for note clone (I always play it my way), its to help me learn to recognize things if I hear them somewhere else. And I'm not happy with the way I play it now.

[fulano]

Originally Posted by banjar

I do that sometimes too, play much TV in a pattern. Its all I can do at this point. Its something, but its clearly not as good as what he does. I can get a few of of the hammers and little runs from C to F. I can do the little flourish he does in F before heading to C at the end of each verse, which I think is the most important part to get right because it adds ooomph to the lyrics. That makes the song, to me, just like his hammers make If I Needed You. The rest of what he does in TV is rather nondescrpt and I just cant hear it cleanly. Mostly due to inexperience, I'm sure.

My interest in learning to play it the same way as TVZ is not to become a note for note clone (I always play it my way), its to help me learn to recognize things if I hear them somewhere else. And I'm not happy with the way I play it now.

Good points. The best way to learn is to emulate what others are doing. I didn't mean to imply anyone was being a clone anyway. It's just that I am lazy I guess and would rather play it well enough to accompany myself while I sing than worry about all the little details (unless they are specific things that really make the song unique).

[fjs717]

I appreciate all of the replies and the great info. I am not an accomplished guitarist; basically a novice. I can read music, but cannot play by ear. I like knowing the original musical score for these fingerstyle songs because of the unique "flourishes" in them. That often makes the song for me. Another favorite example is "Ft. Worth Blues", Steve Earle's tribute to TVZ. The basic fingerstyle pattern is pretty straightforward, but Steve adds some nice flourishes to end some of the measures. He also likes to hammer on the second string, which he may have picked up from TVZ.

On "If I Needed You" it seems to my uneducated ear that there is a little fingerstyle melody line that is played throughout the song, but since I cannot play be ear I have had a difficult time figuring this piece out.

Thanks again!

[banjar]

Originally Posted by fjs717

On "If I Needed You" it seems to my uneducated ear that there is a little fingerstyle melody line that is played throughout the song.

Thanks again!

I would agree with that. Though its not a complex arrangement that song gave me lots of frustration before I settled into a version I can play and be happy with. Really none of his fingerpicking sounds hard to me, but I think he made it sound easy because he was good.

Maybe the simplest TVZ fingerpicking song to pick a semblance of is "Come Tomorrow". You can download it from Amazon. Very straightforward groove, hammers on the 4th string in the C chord a lovely but easy downward 3-2-1 bass run on the low E on your way from G to F. Those 3 things are all you need to make it sound quite good, though there is more going on. And your version will sound better than his, because his starts becoming corny and overproduced around the end of the first verse and gets worse as it goes. I wish they had just let him sing the **** song.

[banjar]

Play around with this kind of pattern for Come Tomorrow

C
------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------1----------------------------------
---------------------0---------------0---------------0---------
-----------------------------2-------------------------------0h2
---------------3-----------------------------3-----------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------

repeat.....



Fulano (or anyone), i would like to know what kind of pattern you use for Tecumseh Valley. I tried it again last night and have a hard time finding something that melds the rest of the song with what I do in the F chord which is something like this. Probably why I never play it anymore. Any pattern I have tried sounds too busy, then it sounds like I stop and get off one bus and get on another for this part at the end of each verse, which like I said I think is the critical part. Argg. I really need a better arrangement for this song! (pleads for help)


F / C
------------------------------/---------
----1----3-----1--------------/--------
--------------------2---------/ -------0
---------3---------------3----/---------
------------------------------/---------3
----1-----------1-------------/---------


arg well I actually syncopate that second (3-3)pinch so it isnt a pinch but this is close

[daleyfolk]

FJS, regarding "IF I needed You"
Send me a private message with your email and I can send you a jpeg.
I wrote this up for my guitar students. It's not totally how TVZ plays it, but it's close. It's got some hammers, and the melody going on. If you already know how to travis pick, it shouldn't be too hard.
Patricia

[banjar]

Originally Posted by daleyfolk

FJS, regarding "IF I needed You"
Send me a private message with your email and I can send you a jpeg.
I wrote this up for my guitar students. It's not totally how TVZ plays it, but it's close. It's got some hammers, and the melody going on. If you already know how to travis pick, it shouldn't be too hard.
Patricia

What about the rest of us? I'd like to see the tab too.

[daleyfolk]

Sent it out via email attachments to two folks. Anyone else? Just Send me a private msg.
Pat

[fulano]

Originally Posted by banjar

Fulano (or anyone), i would like to know what kind of pattern you use for Tecumseh Valley. I tried it again last night and have a hard time finding something that melds the rest of the song with what I do in the F chord which is something like this. Probably why I never play it anymore. Any pattern I have tried sounds too busy, then it sounds like I stop and get off one bus and get on another for this part at the end of each verse, which like I said I think is the critical part. Argg. I really need a better arrangement for this song! (pleads for help)

I guess that was the point of my post, I haven't normally tried to follow his pattern, especially on Techunseh Valley, since there is really not a melody lead in or anthing. I just do a basic travis pick and thumb the bass notes as I change chords.

I went back and listened to how he plays it and it is definately a more specific pattern than just a standard travis picking pattern I have done. Also, I'm sure I play it in a different key. I think I play it in 'B' now (capo on II played in A) and I think he plays it in C.

Someone smarter and better than I should be able to help you out.

[fulano]

Update :

I fooled around with Techumseh Valley again last night, playing it in "C" like TVZ does. The hammer-on on the C chord is something I wasn't doing but was easy to add. I have always done a little bit more than Townes does with thumbing bass notes in the chord transitions from F to Em to Am (which I like my way and I will keep) and then I wasn't doing the little thing on the F chord at the end of the verse like Banjar tabbed above. I was able to work that in and it sounds pretty good to me.

banjar - I think you tabbed it pretty well, but I don't play it that way. I just worked what he does on the 2nd and 3rd string into the standard travis pattern I was using throughout the song and it sounds pretty close. I didn't learn guitar with tabs and my brain just doesn't think that way or I would try and tab the way I do it.

BTW, it is a fabulous song. I love the cover that Nanci Griffith did on that song as well. When I saw her in concert years ago, she said her Dad took her to see TVZ live when she was young and her dad was of the opinion that Techumseh Valley was the greatest folk song of all time. It's right up there.

[fjs717]

Originally Posted by fulano

Update :
...
BTW, it is a fabulous song. I love the cover that Nanci Griffith did on that song as well. When I saw her in concert years ago, she said her Dad took her to see TVZ live when she was young and her dad was of the opinion that Techumseh Valley was the greatest folk song of all time. It's right up there.

This is one of my favorite songs also. I have a great DVD (overseas import), "Singing Songwriters", that has various artists, e.g. Nanci Griffith, EmmyLou Harris, Steve Earle, etc, performing TVZ songs on an Austin City Limits TVZ tribute show ... http://www.nodepression.net/issues/nd14/miked.html . Nanci played her great cover of Tecumseh Valley. But my personal all-time favorite is Steve Earle's cover of Tecumseh Valley on his 1995 CD "Train a Comin'" ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si6tLuSwYag ... I'd love to have that Tab!