Saddle filing question

[jed1894]

I apologize in advance for the newbie question but I am trying to teach myself a few things. I figure if I can fly an airplane I can learn how to lower the action on a guitar. At $100 a pop to setup a guitar, I'm learning this myself. I'm fully aware I will probably screw it up so that's why I'm buying a few saddles and nuts to do my experiments.

The answer to this question may be buried in threads somewhere, so I apologize if this is a common topic for you guys. However it's a simple question:

I have a cheap, broken guitar I would like to experiment on as far as lowering the action Based on my research, it looks like there are two methods.

1. Removing the whole saddle and filing from the bottom.
2. Use a file of some sort and file the top of the saddle (notching) to lower the action.

Just looking for answers from the pros on how the best way to approach this. It appears that the notching from the top with a file, while the guitar strings are in stall, would be the easiest way, but how would one make sure they are evenly filed?

Thanks in advance, Jed

[charles Tauber]

Jed,

There is more to setting up a guitar to play its best than simply lowering the string height at the saddle.

Here is one description of some of the basics: http://charlestauber.com/luthier/Res...May%202015.pdf

[Rodger Knox]

There are three main steps in setup, and there are a number of ways to do it, I recommend, relief, nut slots, and sadle height (action). Relief is measured by fretting a string at the first and 14th fret, and checking the clearance at the 7th fret. It needs to be between 0.003" and 0.007", and to check, just tap the string. It should ring, but just a little. If it's not too far off, I'd leave it alone, the truss rods in inexpensive guitars can be problematic. Then the nut slots, by putting a capo on the first fret and checking if it is easier to play. If it is, you can probably lower the nut slots, it's tedious but not difficult. Check often so you don't overcut, it's hard to a it back. Then the action, and how low it can be depends on the quality of the fretwork, not the appearance but the accuracy with which it follows the individiual string planes. The action at the 12th fret is lowered by 1/2 the amount you take off the saddle. Working the saddle from the top allows you to set the action of each string, working from the bottom allows you to set the action at the first and 6th strings, the others woul be set by the radius of the saddle. Either way works.

Improving the fretwork is another thing altogether, and other than minor repairs, is not usually included in a setup. There's no reason you can't do it, and there's lots of places to learn about fretwork, and those instructions are way beyond a single post.
edit: follow Charles's link, that's one of the places I'm talking about.

[M Hayden]

Hah! Rodger got to it just befor I did . Same process, too. I love this forum!

Setup is way more than just saddle height - you’ll need to read up on at least the following:

• neck relief (curve): http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musi...Adj/tradj.html
• nut action: http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musi...nutaction.html
• saddle adjustment: http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musi...raction01.html

Here’s how I do it - I’m an amateur but the process works for me:

- check neck relief and adjust the straightness of the neck according to your preferences
- make sure nut height is set properly (be careful - cutting too low leads to buzzing and worse)
- saddle height adjustment.

Saddle height adjustment can be done from either the top or the bottom, but if you have the top shaped to intonate well, it’s easier to remove material from the bottom, as long as you can keep it flat (90 degrees) and measure accurately to ensure that you’re removing the amount of material necessary to get the action you want.

For tools, you’ll need:
- accurate measuring tools - fine rule and maybe a caliper
- Sandpaper on a flat glass sheet (glass cutting board) and acrylic-nail nail-files work pretty well and not too fast to flatten and shape saddles and nuts.
- Nut files are specialty items which are worth the cost if you’re going to work on lots of instruments; otherwise, maybe it’s possible to use a super-fine jeweler’s file set or maybe welder’s cleaning files.

That’s just a start - if you’re careful and ensure that you’ve taken the time to understand what the goal is, it’s possible to do a good basic setup.

[jed1894]

I should have been more clear. Already done the neck relief and nut. Just moving on to next step......

[jed1894]

You guys are outstanding. Thanks. Got plenty of material to get me going. I believe I got the nut and relief about right. Just not sure which route to take on adjusting the saddle. I may try it both ways since I'm just practicing.

[Mr Fingers]

I remove from the bottom when string height is too great overall, and from the top when various string heights need to be corrected to different degrees. Having the saddle bottom really flat and perfectly perpendicular to the sides is essential for good tone and volume, so when I've got a great fit down there I tend to work from the top lest I mess it up.

[jed1894]

Originally Posted by Mr Fingers

I remove from the bottom when string height is too great overall, and from the top when various string heights need to be corrected to different degrees. Having the saddle bottom really flat and perfectly perpendicular to the sides is essential for good tone and volume, so when I've got a great fit down there I tend to work from the top lest I mess it up.

Good info.....I'm looking for a file now.... But I'm tempted to try this top method tonight on my LL6 since I plan to change to bone or Tusq anyway. Nothing to lose really. I can measure as I go.

I just compared the yamy LL6 to my Ibanez AC240, which came set up low and plays perfectly with low action, the Yamy LL6 is almost 2/16ths higher at 12th fret. I believe the AC240 strings are coated as well.

What tool you guys suggest on filing from top that might work if I can't find a file?

[jed1894]

Ok guys, I decided to shave the saddle down and it was a success! Having the confidence, I went ahead and did the LL6 over the objection of my darling wife who bought the $500 guitar..hehe. "Is that the expensive guitar you are sawing on?" She said. It was a success too. I also fixed my nut that was a hair off from the factory. I only went down a mm or so to see how worked. I may go down a little more tomorrow before I order the new nut and saddle.

It was a breeze thanks to you guys and the info y'all provided.

Jed

[Rodger Knox]

The relief and the nut can frequently be left alone, but it's quick and easy to check them. As long as the fretwork is good enough to get the action height you want, now you know sanding the saddle is not that hard.

[jed1894]

Originally Posted by Rodger Knox

The relief and the nut can frequently be left alone, but it's quick and easy to check them. As long as the fretwork is good enough to get the action height you want, now you know sanding the saddle is not that hard.

Lowered it just a tad again tonight. Got it perfect now. Plays much easier. Easier on the fingers. Finally happy with this guitar. Experimenting on a classical right now.