Taylor ES2. Help to make it sound good

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Joe F

Are you sure it's the ES-2? I thought the 214ce came with the more traditional ES-T pickup.

I was wondering the same thing: If it's a straight 2015 Taylor 214ce, then it's a ES-T undersaddle pickup but if it's a 2015 Taylor 214ce DLX, or Taylor 214ce K DLX, then it would have an ES2. The OP indicated that he's hesitant to play with the screws, so, unless there's some misunderstanding, he seems to have an ES2.

[Petty1818]

I am sure the Session DI would improve the ES2. However, the issues that I have come across with some ES2 equipped Taylor's would definitely not be fixed with the just the Session. It's as if the adjustment screws were set incorrectly and the result is feedback, too much bass and a hollow sound. Again, the screw adjustments are nice but I think most people, including myself, would be a bit nervous/lost when it comes to adjusting them properly. Taylor has a track record of changing pickups frequently so I will not be surprised if next year an ES2 v.2 pickup is introduced.

[Brendonp]

Many thanks all for your help and advice.
SpruceTop. Yes its the DLX well spotted. I was expecting a good sound strait from the guitar withought much eq and im surprised im having trouble with this.

Petty1818. What you describe is exactly what im experiencing. I think i may give taylor a call tomorrow and see what they think.

I am up for having a tinker with the pickup but would like some guidance as to what effect tightening or loosening will have.

Many thanks
Brendon


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[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Brendonp

Many thanks all for your help and advice.
SpruceTop. Yes its the DLX well spotted. I was expecting a good sound strait from the guitar withought much eq and im surprised im having trouble with this.

Petty1818. What you describe is exactly what im experiencing. I think i may give taylor a call tomorrow and see what they think.

I am up for having a tinker with the pickup but would like some guidance as to what effect tightening or loosening will have.

Many thanks
Brendon


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Tightening will give you a bit more fundamental tone and loosening a bit more jangle. You can't screw anything up if you do this:

1) Stick the short-stem of the .050" Allen wrench in a screw and note the direction the long stem is pointing (try to get a position that is parallel to the bridge or perpendicular to it as an easy initial reference to return to factory-set position, if needed). You have six potential initial reference positions because of the Allen screw's Hex-head socket.
2) Gently rotate the long stem about 1/4 turn (90 degrees) clockwise to tighten the screw to increase the pickup's force against the bridge-saddle. Do this for the other two screws by finding a wrench position that is about the same as the first screw's initial position. Write on a note pad that your first adjustment started from the described initial position and was rotated 1/4 turn clockwise.
3) Play your amplified guitar through your PA with all EQ flat. Any better tone? If not, try another 1/4 turn, with similar procedure as above, noting what you did in reference to original position, i.e., all screws now a 1/2 turn clockwise from factory settings. Play amplified to judge tone.
4) You can also go counterclockwise in a similar fashion from the original factory settings until you lose the amplified tone because the pickup is no longer against the bridge-saddle. If you do this, note the rotation from original factory settings to where the amplified tone stops so you can return to the original settings.

Likely, you'll have about 1 turn in a clockwise direction from the original factory settings before full tightness so always rotate the Allen wrench gently. You'll likely have about 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn until you lose the amplified tone when rotating in a counterclockwise direction.

Any of this pickup stuff, whether UST-, SBT- or Magnetic-related, isn't rocket science, so don't be afraid to experiment! Please let us know your progress.

[Brendonp]

Hi all. Apologies i haven't posted an update to this.
So i had a tweek with the pickup. First the low end which was feeding back and had a low mid ring (not feedback) appears to have been caused by the pickup only just touching the back of the bridge. A 1/8 turn clockwise made a massive difference and the lows are much more defined and under control.
Secondly, tightening the mid and high pickup 1/8 - 1/4 turn appears to tighten or compress the sound a little making them sound more controlled and increases the highs slightly.
All Round it sounds much better now.

Many thanks to all for help and advice
Brendon


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[Turp]

Originally Posted by Vancebo

I don't have a "favorite" preamp. I buy them to try them and return some and keep some. Each of them sound different when you plug your guitar in and set it flat. One doesn't sound "better" than the other. It's a tool that has it's own set of features that aren't quite the same. What I like about the Fishman is the tuner, I learned to appreciate the Compression, and if needed it has a good working HPF which I didn't use at church because there is already one on the board. The Bass end was warmer and the treble end was brighter. What I liked about the Venue was I thought the EQ section was more flexible (which my not be a good thing for some folks) and it is built like a tank. There should be no reason why you shouldn't be able to dial in a good sound with one of these. GC has a 30 day return policy. You can plug it in and scoop out some of the muddiness and add some sparkle and you should be good to go. You can return it if it doesn't work for you.

When the Op mentioned demoing through an AER then getting poor sound through a PA raised a flag for me.

I agree about finding the right EQ/DI. I too have recently found the benefit to compression as well as Bass cut. It's great if you can get good sound plugged straight in, but sometimes tweaking with the right equipment between the guitar and PA will take your guitar sound up a notch or more.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Brendonp

Hi all. Apologies i haven't posted an update to this.
So i had a tweek with the pickup. First the low end which was feeding back and had a low mid ring (not feedback) appears to have been caused by the pickup only just touching the back of the bridge. A 1/8 turn clockwise made a massive difference and the lows are much more defined and under control.
Secondly, tightening the mid and high pickup 1/8 - 1/4 turn appears to tighten or compress the sound a little making them sound more controlled and increases the highs slightly.
All Round it sounds much better now.

Many thanks to all for help and advice
Brendon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm glad to hear you've gotten the tone you deserve and that the Expression System 2 is capable of delivering!

[lpholland]

Hi all, I bought a New Taylor 722ce K. Love the guitar how it plays, but hate the sound. I play through a Fishman Solo 330 for my PA. This guitar has no balls for lack of a better word. I can turn the Volume all the way up and it just doesn’t seem to have a fullness. i have changed the battery. I’ve done all the usual things and just can not seem to get a decent sound out of this guitar. BTW I also have a Taylor Doyle Dykes guitar with the LR Baggs in it. This guitar is the best sounding guitar Ive ever had. I wanted the 722ce k as a back up but just can’t get the sound right.
Thanks,

[Twang Banger]

The fact that these threads and the ES2 debate exist speaks for itself. Any system like this that is so inconsistent and requires so much consideration and modification to make work, is indefensible. I’ve had an ES2 system replaced by Go Acoustic Audio and that 324ce now sounds fine. I just picked up a new 614ce in hopes things have improved (or a better chance at luck) and the ES2 is UNUSABLE. I had to stop playing at a gig last night because it sounded so bad, run out to my car and grab a spare guitar I brought along (because I suspected this would happen).

I know some say this is a great system, but I honestly think the ES2 is an indefensible sham of a pickup. IT. SOUNDS. HORRIBLE.

[SGFletch]

I checked that the sensors were all adjusted by loosening and then re-tightening through headphones with all controls flat until they sounded even from string to string and the outputs were at a decent level.

I have found that running the master volume about 75% or higher (pay attention to the rest of your gain stages) makes the ES2 sound more robust than most of the demos I've heard (to me).

I think it can sound better than most of the demos I hear out there. It is a pretty good plug-and-chug system. I have a Maton, though - so the pickup is so good in that that it gets the most gigging time. Taylors play so well, though that I'm always tempted to gig with the one ES2-equipped guitar I have. I have played a couple of gigs with it and it was fine, but I do kind of miss the additional air of the internal mic of a dual-source system.

Having said that, I'm not that finicky and may just switch over to the ES2 as the Taylor is just a more pleasant guitar, in terms of the action, intonation, and neck profile for me.

I doubt the audience would notice much difference. I have heard an ES2 sound great on a gig when I was in the audience.

[guitaniac]

https://youtu.be/c2GLc1Wr_ew?si=sUBLdhNsLULXfy2x

Alamo Music posted this tutorial on the ES2.

And yes, the latest 214ce model is equipped with the ES2.

[Sev112]

Originally Posted by Twang Banger

The fact that these threads and the ES2 debate exist speaks for itself. Any system like this that is so inconsistent and requires so much consideration and modification to make work, is indefensible. I’ve had an ES2 system replaced by Go Audio and that 324ce now sounds fine. I just picked up a new 614ce in hopes things have improved (or a better chance at luck) and the ES2 is UNUSABLE. I had to stop playing at a gig last night because it sounded so bad, run out to my car and grab a spare guitar I brought along (because I suspected this would happen).

I know some say this is a great system, but I honestly think the ES2 is an indefensible sham of a pickup. IT. SOUNDS. HORRIBLE.

The same argument would seem to be applicable to every pickup system out there, every single one gets people saying they are crap.

I have an ES2 on my Taylor, (and Baggs on my Dowina)

I find the ES2 works really well with the guitar volum at 50 to 66%, but if Vol at 100% sounds horribly boomy to me

[DownUpDave]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

https://youtu.be/c2GLc1Wr_ew?si=sUBLdhNsLULXfy2x

Alamo Music posted this tutorial on the ES2.

And yes, the latest 214ce model is equipped with the ES2.

That was a very well done video, thanks for posting that 👍

[B. Adams]

The DI itself can make a huge difference. They're not all created equal. I tend to like active DI's on most acoustics, and I have a bunch of Radial Pro48's that work well on most everything.

The single biggest improvement I've made to my ES2 tone was an Empress compressor. It's like an instant sound-better switch, and I need to find a way to have one in line all the time.

[beninma]

I am also curious about this. I bought a 514ce about a month ago and more recently I got a Fishman Loudbox Artist and the L.R. Baggs Align session.

I have been experimenting with the screws on the bridge, maybe they help, but the ES2 system is just so incredibly microphonic, I haven't really figured anything out to demphasize the sound of the pick and/or fingernails.

I have quite a few pedals for electric guitar, I would consider getting a good EQ pedal or a different compressor if it could pull double duty.

I am not sure why I should need to get a separate DI Box when I bought an Acoustic amp, but if running Guitar -> DI -> XLR -> Loudbox dramatically improves the sound I'd consider it, especially if the DI having a parametric EQ could really help.

I've pulled some recordings into Garage Band via my Focusrite Scarlet Solo and I haven't really had much luck with the equalizer in Garage Band in terms of demphasizing the pick noises, so I'm skeptical another EQ in a pedal/DI would do much. The Garage Band EQ has a high and low pass shelf filter and about 5 parametric bands where you can adjust the frequency and Q, so I suspect if you can't do it in there a pedal can't do it.

I listened to the Taylor podcast about ES2 and I thought it was pretty ridiculous. They are clearly super sensitive about it and think it's better than everything else and act offended that anyone disagrees. They had an example, the guys on the show had apparently helped Lizzy McAlpine get dialed in for the Jimmy Fallon show and she was very happy. But then they play the clip, her acoustic tone is basically just fingernail noise with no body from the guitar, basically just the whispy finger/pick noises that ES2 is so good at reproducing so it sits behind her vocals. It was amazing they picked her as an example when so many other people would hate if there tone sounded like her! She was playing a mahogany top guitar, maybe an AD22e, and there is no way the plugged in sound is anything like what the AD22e sounds like acoustically, I have played that guitar a few times.