Moving to a more plant-based diet

[GHS]

I have nothing against trying, never said I did. I do try. Eat right most of the time. Exercise, not nearly as much as years ago, ( too much time practicing ) takes alot of hours. I dont smoke. 25 years ago I did, then I saw the light. It all helps, but how much? I see lots of older folks from my parents generation still active in their 80's and even 90's. They never owned a pair of running shoes, had a membership in a gym, or went on " health diets". Yet here they are, going strong. I think stress plays an even more important part in health than diet, but what do I know?

Originally Posted by GHS

I have nothing against trying, never said I did. I do try. Eat right most of the time. Exercise, not nearly as much as years ago, ( too much time practicing ) takes alot of hours. I dont smoke. 25 years ago I did, then I saw the light. It all helps, but how much? I see lots of older folks from my parents generation still active in their 80's and even 90's. They never owned a pair of running shoes, had a membership in a gym, or went on " health diets". Yet here they are, going strong. I think stress plays an even more important part in health than diet, but what do I know?

The point is, you can't assume what's going on in your genes and body is the same as these anecdotal cases you hear, like grandma chain-smoked and lived to be 90 or what have you. But one thing's for sure--grandma would have been better off during the time she lived had she not smoked. Same applies to poor diet, of course.

As someone else pointed out, to me a healthy lifestyle is not so much about living longer, but living better. And as I mentioned in my posts earlier, yes, stress and sleep management also are vital. I wouldn't say more important than diet, though. At most, equally important. And really, stress, sleep, and diet are all interlinked.

[Psalad]

Originally Posted by GHS

I have nothing against trying, never said I did. I do try. Eat right most of the time. Exercise, not nearly as much as years ago, ( too much time practicing ) takes alot of hours. I dont smoke. 25 years ago I did, then I saw the light. It all helps, but how much? I see lots of older folks from my parents generation still active in their 80's and even 90's. They never owned a pair of running shoes, had a membership in a gym, or went on " health diets". Yet here they are, going strong. I think stress plays an even more important part in health than diet, but what do I know?

I'm all for taking a reasonable approach that conbines quality living with eating mindfully. What does it harm to be more mindful? What does a little discipline cost and what does it gain? We will never know how much it matters, that is true, but what I know is I will take reasonable effort to ensure medical issues in my life will NOT be caused by me, at least as much as reasonably possible. Sure I might have unknown medical conditions that will sneak up on me, but there is nothing I can do about that. I'm all for taking care of the human side that I DO have control over. That discipline has served me well in other areas of my life too.

[Chicago Sandy]

I figure the best way to make big changes is one small achievable and practical step at a time. So I decided to increase the proportion of plant-based foods in my diet: as close as possible to the way they came out of the ground or off the tree or vine. An occasional orange, half-grapefruit or tangerine instead of juice or marmalade. Tomatoes instead of juice or V-8. Making my own tomato sauce from scratch instead of from a can, jar or pouch. Whole nuts and olives. Pesto from basil, nuts, and oil instead of from a jar. Dressing from scratch instead of a bottle--with no sweetener or starchy thickener added. And fresh herbs rather than dried whenever I can find them.

[Dirk Hofman]

Okay, so wanted to post an update on how things have been going.

Weight: Continues to drop at a surprising rate. Now at 203.5 as of this morning. So that's an 8.5 lb drop in 2 1/2 weeks, which is again much faster than I expected. Body fat has remained steady at 18.5% from the initial drop.

Fitness: I started experiencing some notable fatigue in my martial arts classes, and Saturday it got pretty bad. Have been having sleep issues due to another medical condition, and that can't have helped, but my teacher suggested I get more protein, so I started looking at real protein needs for active individuals and I was coming up pretty short. So I've added fish to my diet in a much bigger way, eating a lot of prawns, rockfish, sardines and anchovies and will thread in salmon as a treat now and then. Sleep has been getting better as the other issue recedes, and I've noticed major improvement. At last night's class one of the higher belts shook his head and said I was in better shape than all of them, and I was feeling great. Probably a combo of lost weight, better sleep and more focused training.

Will continue to monitor. Feeling really good after adding the protein back in. I may have cut back too much and/or too quickly.

Carbs and Whole Grains: Some comments in the thread that people eating like this will end up getting most of their calories from grains. One, for me that's not a problem as all I have read tells me that people who eat whole grains consistently over time have much better health outcomes over the long haul. So cutting out grains has never been a focus, though making sure they are always whole grains has been a change. Beyond that, whole grains are a great source of protein and energy for the active person. Cutting them out makes no sense for me.

That said, it's really not hard at all to eat mostly vegetables and a few whole grains and proteins. I've been having salads with tofu or sardines/anchovies/albacore sprinkled on top for lunch all week, and it's great. Saves me money from buying food at work, and tastes awesome. I do get hungry in the afternoon and snack on either granola or mixed nuts. That does the trick no problem.

Other: I've become a much better cook! Some fantastic recipes out there, and really quite easy. Some of the Red Snapper dishes are really tasty and super easy to prepare. My wife is loving it. Just tons of great foods out there I'd been ignoring, and our diet in the family has become much more varied. My kids are also loving (some of) the new dishes, and my oldest is stoked because she doesn't like meat or poultry much.

So it's been going well, with some adjustments.

Hi, Dirk,

Great update. I'm also progressing, now down to 222 from my original 256 (aiming for about 170-175). Got a good report from the doctor today on my annual physical results. Just need to get my HDL up, but he says I'm on the right track by losing the weight and getting more exercise in. I have a lot more energy, and feel more mentally acute as well. And to think I'm only a little over 40% or so to my goal--I should be feeling REALLY great by then!

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by GraceGuitars

Hi, Dirk,

Great update. I'm also progressing, now down to 222 from my original 256 (aiming for about 170-175). Got a good report from the doctor today on my annual physical results. Just need to get my HDL up, but he says I'm on the right track by losing the weight and getting more exercise in. I have a lot more energy, and feel more mentally acute as well. And to think I'm only a little over 40% or so to my goal--I should be feeling REALLY great by then!

That's an impressive weight loss! Glad you're feeling better. You'll be a different person at 175! That's major.

I have been curious about how all this is affecting my blood values, and I'm thinking about scheduling a physical. Curious where I'm at, really have no idea.

[seannx]

Protein is important, along with healthy fats (that's another plus from your fish), and supplemental carbs before and after more intense workouts.

My weight stabilized after 6 months on basically the diet recommended in Grain Brain, with a loss of 25 pounds overall. I experimented with more fruit on my Brazil trip in November (papaya, pineapple, melon, fresh juice, and a few small bananas), and returned home a pound lighter.

But adding in more whole grain servings, or some black beans, always results in a two pound jump the next day. That's enough to motivate me to be more selective, and in a few days I'll be back to my base line. Berries, an orange or two, and even some dried fruit doesn't have the same effect.

I think the secret is eating few enough carbs, and especially not processed ones, to keep you in fat burning mode. Then eat some carbs a few hours before and soon after exercise. That way your body has enough glycogen available short term.

Another big factor is the eating habits of the people you live with. My two sons (16 and 33) like a full dinner, while I am fine with less, and prefer a salad with a little cheese or turkey. If we go out, I'll have a salad and serving of fish. I like to join them at the table, but it's sometimes a challenge not to eat more, simply because it looks and tastes good. That's when portion control is more critical.

I'm looking forward to get back on my mountain bike, and trail running, too. At 65, and after being 20+ pounds overweight for almost 10 years - basically fit but fat for me - I'm almost paranoid about gaining weight again.

My biggest meal of the day is breakfast. Almost always two slices of turkey bacon, an omelette with spinach, cheese, and avocado, and maybe an orange. Very satisfying, and I enjoy cooking, too. I realize there is a big range of diets, as well as what will work best for different people. I'm glad I found a diet that I can easily follow, enjoy, and that also works well when traveling and eating out.

[Dirk Hofman]

My go to breakfast at this point is greek yogurt, with blueberries and granola mixed in. Tastes fantastic and lasts me 'till about 11:00 am. Usually eat at 7:00 am. Quick snack of mixed nuts and I'm fine until lunch at 12:30 - 1:00.

My wife cooked bacon for the kids this morning as a topping (with eggs) for their bagels. Not as tempting as I thought it would be, but still tempting. Is there a better smell?

[amyFB]

Grains - I read once that humans are not built to process them as effectively as the animals who eat them and that we can get more of their nutrients thru the meat of the animal who ate them. I avoid them mostly, and consume in small small doses when tempted beyond reason.

Fit for Life is my favorite 'diet' book - and the one takeaway that has stayed with me was Never mix carbs and protein in one meal.
Have salad/veggies and meat , or have salad/veggies and carbs.

America (and the Rest of the World) started on the path to largeness when TV glued our collective butts to the couch with a bowl of popcorn in our laps and showed us one commercial after another touting the benefits of all kinds of convenient processed foods.

yours in tune, and elastic waistbands,

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by amyFB

Grains - I read once that humans are not built to process them as effectively as the animals who eat them and that we can get more of their nutrients thru the meat of the animal who ate them. I avoid them mostly, and consume in small small doses when tempted beyond reason.

I don't think we're going to get more plant nutrients by eating the meat of animals who consume plants. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you're saying? It may be true humans don't process grains as well as some animals, but I'm sure that's also true for a great number of foods.

Everything I have read indicates that humans do very well in terms of overall health by eating whole grains. It is western culture and diet that breeds chronic obesity, heart disease, diabetes and more. I don't think it can be simplified to one type of food, but every study I can find indicates that it is still a plant-based diet including whole grains and excluding fatty, hormone and chemical-laden meat which gives the best overall health outcomes.

As far as weight goes, entire continents of people in Asia and Africa live on grains. They have started noting an increase in health issues as they move into a more prosperous, western diet and lifestyle.

I just don't see any evidence that whole grains are a problem. I see a lot of theories, but from what I can find they have major holes and no support of benefit from long-term studies. We will know more as the newer, more meat-based diets are studied in the long term.

For those interested, this study has a fantastic analysis of the various diet strategies:

http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/ful...-032013-182351

Great read. For my part, I've moved into a more Mediterranean diet (sans wine and meat) which is plant, grain and fish-based. The almost purely plant-based approach was too radical for me initially. I will continue to evolve what I eat as I settle in and learn more about what works for me.

Mediterranean diets are based on the common themes of the traditional dietary pattern that prevails in Mediterranean countries: an emphasis on olive oil, vegetables, fruits, nuts and seeds, beans and legumes, selective dairy intake, and whole grains; often fish and other seafood; and quite limited consumption of meat. Moderate wine intake is often explicitly included as well (149).

...

The scientific support for variations on the theme of Mediterranean eating is very strong. Intervention trials, such as the Lyon Diet Heart Study (35), have demonstrated cardiovascular benefit at least as great as that seen with low-fat, vegetarian diets. PREDIMED (Effects of the Mediterranean Diet on the Primary Prevention of Cardiovascular Diseases), an international intervention trial assessing the effects of a Mediterranean diet on cardiovascular outcomes (141), and other trials have shown diverse health benefits. In systematic review, the Mediterranean diet showed favorable effects on lipoprotein levels, endothelium vasodilatation, insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome, antioxidant capacity, myocardial and cardiovascular mortality, and cancer incidence in obese patients and in those with previous myocardial infarction (141). Adherence to a Mediterranean diet pattern is potentially associated with defense against neurodegenerative disease and preservation of cognitive function, reduced inflammation and defense against asthma, amelioration of insulin sensitivity, and relatively high scores of objectively measured overall diet quality (138, 142, 166).

[Psalad]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

Great read. For my part, I've moved into a more Mediterranean diet (sans wine and meat) which is plant, grain and fish-based.

Wine is a major part of that diet. Well for me anyway.

The less grains I eat the better I feel and the more I stay close to my target weight. The trick for me is to stay closer to ketosis, so my body is getting the carbs I need but not too much that my body stores the balance as fat. When my carbs are in balance all appears to be well. YMMV but that works for me.

I'm mostly vegetarian with fish a few times a week and get a fair amount of exercise.

I would characterize my diet as pseudo paleo vegetarian pescatarian mediterranean.

[amyFB]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

I don't think we're going to get more plant nutrients by eating the meat of animals who consume plants. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you're saying? It may be true humans don't process grains as well as some animals, but I'm sure that's also true for a great number of foods.

I didn't express that very well, sorry.

It is the refining process of whole grains into flours that is disruptive to the nutritional content.

So, the animal reference in my original post had to do with the ability of the animal to consume a whole grain without it needing to be refined in order to do so. As such, all the nutrition of the grain stays with and is absorbed by the animal, and thus reaches the human who eats the meat of the animal that ate the grain. (so my theory goes)

Whole-kernel grains, such as wild rice, quinoa, millet, buckwheat groats, hulled barley and whole-wheat berries are the most nutritious choice for humans.

Quinoa is my current fave for quick easy cooking and versatility in hot and cold dishes.

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by amyFB

I didn't express that very well, sorry.

It is the refining process of whole grains into flours that is disruptive to the nutritional content.

So, the animal reference in my original post had to do with the ability of the animal to consume a whole grain without it needing to be refined in order to do so. As such, all the nutrition of the grain stays with and is absorbed by the animal, and thus reaches the human who eats the meat of the animal that ate the grain. (so my theory goes)

Whole-kernel grains, such as wild rice, quinoa, millet, buckwheat groats, hulled barley and whole-wheat berries are the most nutritious choice for humans.

Quinoa is my current fave for quick easy cooking and versatility in hot and cold dishes.

It's certainly well established that whole grains are better for us than processed, no question!

What animals eat is not retained in the simple way you seem to suggest. The digestive system breaks foods down into energy sources (and by products) and stores them, but not in the same form as when consumed and not necessarily in the fat or muscle tissue. It's pretty complex.

You want the benefit of grain? You can't get it from meat. And vice versa.

[Steve DeRosa]

Tried a plant-based diet back in college at the suggestion of a friend, completely redefined the term "natural gas" - got off that kick in a hurry...