DPA 4099G Mic opinions please..

[celticlofts]

Just wondering if any of you guys are using the DPA 4099G external guitar mic for live acoustic work and how it compares to the Fishman Ellipse Matrix blend that I'm using at the moment.. I know James Taylor was using it for his concerts so I'm guessing it must be good as it sounds well on his youtube stuff.. but I just wanted to get a few feelers out there.. Thanks..

[Doug Young]

You're posting in Record, so I assume you're intending to record with it? Yes, it's a nice mic, part of DPA's 4000 series, which are small electret condensers, often used as "invisible" vocal mics for broadway performances and so on. For live performance, the 4099 sounds better than an internal mic, because it's a decent mic, placed outside the guitar. The downside is feedback, of course.

For recording, you don't have to worry about feedback, but the main benefits of the mic - mounting on the guitar, really aren't all that helpful, and there are some downsides. You have limited placement options, it's a mono mic (tho you could buy 2), and the mic being attached to the guitar tends to pick up rustling noises and so on from you handling the guitar - not as big a deal live, but you'll probably notice in the studio. You're paying a premium for the mount and the overall design to make it work for live performance. For recording, I think you'd be better off spending that money on a pair of mics and stands. Of course, if you're planning to use it for live amplification just wondering if you can also use it to record saving the cost of a separate mic for recording, then sure, that makes some sense.

Oh, and to answer some of your specific questions: I have one, and you can find me reviewing/demoing one for Acoustic Guitar on You Tube. I never use mine for recording, rarely use it for live these days. And as far as your Fishman, yes, any external condenser mic is very likely to sound much more like your guitar than any UST pickup. Whether that's "better" will depend on your use. For recording, it's almost guaranteed that a mic will beat out a UST For live performance, at some volume, or with some PA/Amp setups, the mic may be unusable, so the Fishman will win easily, since it will still work, with a good PA and the right volume, an external mic will give you "studio-quality" sound. Of course, if you use an external mic with a loud band, the mic will probably pick up your drummer, bass player, etc, just as much as your guitar. So it all depends on you use case.

[celticlofts]

Thank Doug for the information. I was wanting to use the mic for life stage work rather than recording. I just wondered if the cost/benifit was worth it over the Fishman that I'm currently using.

[Doug Young]

My suggestion would be to try a stand-mounted condenser mic and see if that works for you. If you like it, and you have no issues with feedback, bleed, etc, then using the 4099 will be very similar, but with the added benefit of being able to move around, and also the downsides I mentioned. If the stand-mounted mic doesn't work, the 4099's not going to work either.

[Ty Ford]

I found it to be problematic when used as the only source in live venues.

In one bar, a narrow, city brick shotgun shack sort of bar with one PA speaker above and behind the talent (who was jammed up in a corner), it was difficult to get much level before feedback.

I was hearing the loud laughter from the bar patrons being picked up by the mic. They were about 6-8 feet from the mic.

In the Rams Head in Annapolis (A much nicer staging setup) still not enough sound, especially if you have monitors and are playing next to a drum kit (or tambouring player). We did a sound check there and as I called out to the sound man to ask a question, the mic, which was mounted on my Martin, picked up my voice pretty well, which is not what you want.

I'd bet that whatever James Taylor had going on, it was a lot more than just the 4099G.

I prefer a K&K Mini. (previously known as a Pure Western Mini)

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Doug Young]

Ty, I'm sure you know that the issues you describe are common to any mic. There's very little unique to the 4099 except that it's mounted on the guitar with a nifty clamp. If you are playing in a noisy bar or have a drummer beside you, no mic is going to work well. And any mic placed close to your head is going to pick up your voice as well as the guitar. There's a reason most guitarists use pickups, and something like the K&K can work very well.

As for James Taylor, on the one man band DVD, he was using the DPA - mounted on the bottom side of the guitar, probably to reduce the voice pickup - and some pickup thru an Aura, with custom images. Someone from Fishman posted some details about this here at one point, if I recall. They, of course, credited the bulk of his sound to the Aura.

Here's a video of a performance with 2 4099's:

http://vimeo.com/5115050

Not great sound, just someone's camera out in the room, but it's an example of a setting where the 4099 works - no drunks, no drummers :-) I'm using the 4099 along with a K&K and a Duncan MagMic (4 sources total!). Bill Coulter is using just the 4099 (and he still uses that, even in his trio). Steve Baughman is using a Baggs Dual Source, if I recall.

My advice is to try a mic (something like a KM184 would be a good choice) and see if it works for you. If it does, the 4099 might also work. If a stand-mounted mic doesn't work in the places you play, the 4099 won't work either. In any case, it's always a good idea to have a backup, a regular pickup, in case a gig turns out to not be quite the quiet, nice acoustical setting you hoped for.

[Ty Ford]

Doug,

Yes….an acoustic guitar with only a mic on it is asking for trouble in most venues.

"along with" is the phrase that makes the most sense. If you're at that stage when you have more than one pickup system for one acoustic guitar, and pockets deep enough to play, then carry on.

Based on my experience, I would not try to use the G as my only pickup.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Doug Young]

Yes, I still have mine, but I rarely use it. When a venue is right for a mic, a mic on a stand offers more flexibility in mic placement. I'd maybe use the DPA if I liked to stand and wander around the stage, but that's asking for trouble with a mic as well.

[Ty Ford]

I use my K&L PWM for that, along with a Sennheiser G2 wireless rig.

Regards,

Ty Ford