Tried Taylor V-braced guitars, here's what I think...

[Rmz76]

Was given an opportunity to play the new 2018 Taylor V-Class braced guitars at Fullers Guitars in Houston. I played the new K24ce and 914ce and did a A-B test against an X-braced 2017 K24ce and a 2017 X-braced 814ce. Before giving my first hand opinion of the guitars, I would like say that if you live in the greater Houston area or are visiting this city and you can only pick one guitar shop to come to then you certainly want to check out Fullers Guitars!!! The store is about a 45-minute drive for me so I don't visit often and although I have yet to make a big purchase with them (I will be later this year), I am always treated with respect and given an incredible amount of attention. They do this without making me feel hounded or pressured to buy something. I really love chatting with the staff. They know their product, love what they do and they love talking guitars! Now on to the review...

2017 X-Braced K24ce vs 2018 V-Class braced K24ce
I will start with the comparison of the K24ce X-braced to the new 2018 V-Class braced K24ce. I spent about 5 minutes with each playing up the neck, playing with capo, playing cowboy chords and even doing a little vocal accompaniment. My opinion is the V-Class braced version is different in some ways that I found appealing and not so much in others. Open position chords definitely have a more piano like quality in that there is a bit clearer note separation. Moving up the neck there does seem to be more sustain and volume. One area I paid close attention to was the differences when using a capo. I tried the capo on the 5th and 7th fret. This is the test that proved to me that the increased volume and sustain claims by Taylor have merit. I could hear a difference and I think anyone in the room could objectively measure this. In capo-open position chord, I played at both 5th and 7th with the volume seemingly increasing the higher up the fret-board.

On the X-braced K24ce I was putting my usual force into the strum to get the expected volume. On the V-Class braced K24ce I had to ease up a bit which made me empathize a bit with the singer-songwriters performing with these instruments in the NAMM videos. In the many videos I saw of these guitars being played with capo, I felt the artist guitar tone not projecting so well. Now I suspect that may have been because they were trying to find the right amount of force in their strumming and trying to adjust because these instruments are louder and because we've all learned to play the acoustic making these subconscious adjustments to the force behind our attack for strumming, picking, etc... as we move up the fret-board.

Taking Taylor at their word, I assume the new V-Class bracing helps create more balance across the fretboard but because of what I'm use to, it felt like it was getting louder the higher I went. This change I'm describing may be very nuanced to some players. Both guitars had Taylor balance and sparkle, if I had to walk out of the store with one of these two guitars, it would be the 2018 V-Class braced K24ce. Overall it just sounded better than it's 2017 X-braced counterpart.

2017 X-braced 814ce vs 2018 V-Class braced 914ce
With this comparison things were more interesting. This wasn't an apples for apples comparison, but the 814ce shares the same exotic wood pairings and both are Taylor's GA body with cutaway. In general I liked the 914ce better than the K24ce but I liked the 2017 814ce the best. Sitka Spruce is my favorite top wood and delivers the tone I'm expecting from an acoustic. I found that I preferred the sound of open position chords on the 814ce over the 914ce. There's a subtle clang that my ears are expecting that just is missing on the V-braced 914ce. In it's place is clearer note separation and perhaps a little more of that famous Taylor top-end sparkle, but it seems like there's a little mid-range sacrificed in the V-Class braced 914ce. This was not as noticeable comparing the 2017 and 2018 K24ce.

Moving up the neck and doing the 5th and 7th fret capo test, I found similar results to the K24ce. The difference being the 914ce could absorb a bit more forceful strumming and seemed to do a better job giving back balance (sustain/volume) tone regardless if I strummed soft or hard. But again, there seemed to be a certain thin quality to the tone. I would describe it as a very faint mid-range scoop. It is something that my ears also picked up on in the demo videos that carried over to the in person experience. So my verdict in comparing the V-Class 914ce to the X-braced 814ce is different than the K24ce comparison. If I could only leave the store with one guitar and my two choices were X-Braced 814ce or V-class braced 914ce, I would pick the 2017 X-braced 814ce.

Conclusion
I left with mix feelings about V-Class bracing. I certainly feel that it's going to be a feature that's going to work for some players and not others and I know that I like it better on the K24ce than 914ce. Knowing that different tone wood combinations can have such an impact on my taste for V-bracing leaves me curious to try more models and also thinking that Taylor should not be abandoning X-bracing across the line. It should exist at least as a custom build option. Because there seems to be a faint mid-range scoop, I'm thinking the natural mid-range boost of Mahagony back and sides would pair very well with it. When V-Class bracing comes to the 500 series I'll be making another trip out to Fullers and if it delivers what I think it will, I'll be a buyer.

[fazool]

Thanks Wayne for taking the time to write up such a well-said comparison. I feel like I actually have a better feeling of what this new bracing could be like for me.

[Glennwillow]

Thanks very much for your thoughts on these guitars, Wayne. Very interesting and very well done! I will look forward to playing these guitars in the future!

- Glenn

[ii Cybershot ii]

Great breakdown of the guitars. I share a lot of your experience too. I really want to hear V-class on a dreadnought. We might be a couple years away from that though.

[Brucebubs]

Thank you for posting an interesting and well-written review.

[Wade Hampton]

That was a nice, thoughtful review there, Wayne. I'm not as interested in Taylor guitars as some folks are, but I'm glad I read your post.


Wade Hampton Miller

[Gjimmy]

I actually tried one of these today. While it was hard to know how the tone compared to older Taylor’s I have to say I found the Taylor super easy to play compared to my HD-28 Martin.

If I had to use a car analogy, I would say the Taylor was a Lexus and the Martin was a BMW. Lexus definitely more comfortable but the BMW more fun to drive. One mans opinion only.

Taylor does make a fine guitar.

[SprintBob]

This is the most concise and thoughtful review I’ve heard yet of the V-braced guitars and the A/B comparisons adds a lot of legitimacy to the opinions stated. Thanks!

[Rodkins]

Great work. Much appreciated!

[ChrisE]

..........

[cotten]

Until I get to try them for myself, this is good to know. When I do, I will be listening for these very things. Thanks for giving us your impressions!

cotten

[zmf]

Thanks, Wayne. Good summary. Your opinion of V-bracing makes sense, i.e., it's desirable in some situations, but not all situations.

[Orfeas]

I like your articulation, Wayne. No math, no physics class. Thanks a lot! I will try a couple too when I'll be at CME.

[Rmz76]

Originally Posted by Orfeas

I like your articulation, Wayne. No math, no physics class. Thanks a lot! I will try a couple too when I'll be at CME.

The recent threads where software has been used to do analysis have been entertaining. To be fair they have their place in measuring things like volume and sustain. Assuming the tools used can measure the granularity needed evaluate the differences (someone mentioned an iPhone app which makes me wonder), software can help validate the core claims Taylor has made. But validating those claims doesn't really tell the musician anything about tonal character/timbre. Doesn't consider shift in balance between mids, highs and lows. Tonal character (timbre) is at least as important as volume and sustain. The more analytical among us hone in on just the things we can measure and ignore everything else. From a marketing standpoint, the measurable attributes work great. But it's only part of the story. Reading Andy Power's V-Class bracing article in Wood & Steel, I can't recall mention of impacts on timbre, yet in demo video after demo video on YouTube I felt like I was hearing some changes... As mentioned in my top post, I know between the models I A-B tested there certainly were. I also know Taylor in general is the most consistent builder guitar to guitar, so I do not think the changes I was hearing to timbre (the "mid-range scoop" on new the 914ce) can be attribute to it just being the usual "no two are exactly the same". They only had one new 914ce to try so I can't say this definitively, but I think it's very unlikely as in the demo videos I was hearing the same issue.

Fortunately for Taylor tonal character is subjective and the new V-Class braced guitars still sound like Taylor guitars, what my ears pick up on and find a turn-off others may feel is so nuanced that it just doesn't matter given the volume and sustain benefits. The one thing that is clear, Taylor is not going to admit to any weakness in the new V-Class bracing. Go back and watch all the videos they've put up, the official marketing videos on their channel and also the NAMM interview videos and you'll NEVER hear them say something like "we love our new V-Class bracing we hope you try it, but we know some traditional players may prefer X-braced guitars". That would be an honest statement. Instead of going down that path Taylor has let their reps go ahead and fill the public in on the companies intentions to transition every series 300 and up to V-Class bracing over the next few years. We know X-bracing is no longer a custom build option on the 914ce and K24ce so it will be interesting if they really phase X-bracing out altogether. To me this is a line in the sand moment for Taylor, from a business stand point it makes perfect sense why they align behind their new innovation and pretend there is no subjectivity to it's superiority.

It seems like such a little thing and it's a play we've seen in so many other industries, but Taylor's aggression and would say manipulative marketing ("manipulative" because they never acknowledge that player who may prefer X-bracing or acknowledge that it does slightly alter the timbre) it's something I really hope the guitar community continues to give them a hard time about, because if the community doesn't then it's going to force other builders to follow Taylor's lead. All marketing is at some level manipulative, but I don't recall Martin or Gibson going out of their way to hail an major innovation and then go on to push a narrative and pretend something subjective is objective.

C.F. Martin's transparency is something I've always found attractive about the company. In one of their presentation's at NAMM this year, Chris Martin states that they changed the lineup a bit to give dealers something new to offer customers. No grandiose talk-up about how superior the new models are to the old, Martin and even Gibson (who has done some crazy things like robo-tuners) leaves these things up to the community to decide. It's a more ethical, "let the product speak for itself" stance. It's a harsh word, but Taylor's tactics with the V-Class bracing launch are disgraceful and unforgettable. Unforgettable in the sense that they company just can't be trusted in the future. They will clearly say whatever they need to in order to try and sell product and grow their business. This is the dark side of Capitalism. Even with privately held companies, success just breeds more greed. I think there was a lot of room for more integrity in the V-Class bracing marketing and considering they are already outselling Gibson and Martin six to one some dealers are telling me, they have the head room to pick integrity over "let's do whatever we must to move product". But Taylor also has incredible muscle. The retail dealer network has to sell product to be successful and Taylor guitars sell very well. Dealers have incredible incentive to nod along the preach the gospel of Taylor. What does the retail clerk have to loose pushing Taylor's marketing narrative? Nothing really. They know behind the sell is a company that is great with post-sale customer service, they believe in Taylor as a company so they are glad to help convince customers V-Class bracing is the second coming of the acoustic guitar... This is win-win for retailers. The strategy will work. Taylor knows it will work, retailers know it will work.

This is how powerful marketing has become, it creates realities.

We live in interesting times where it's all about controlling the influences. This could be the local retail sells person, musicians or athletes giving product endorsements, it could be news personalities on Fox and CNN (won't go there, but this does apply to culture and politics as well). Once you control the influencers you control the masses. The only way to escape it all is to take the blinders off and embrace a bit of cynicism, become aware of the war going on by stealth marketing for every dollar you're going to spend, don't give 100% trust to anyone who stands to gain something from influencing you to buy something. As I found to be true with V-Class bracing, there's usually some element of truth behind marketing claims, but it's not the entire story.

[Orfeas]

Originally Posted by Rmz76

The recent threads where software has been used to do analysis have been entertaining. To be fair they have their place in measuring things like volume and sustain. Assuming the tools used can measure the granularity needed evaluate the differences (someone mentioned an iPhone app which makes me wonder), software can help validate the core claims Taylor has made. But validating those claims doesn't really tell the musician anything about tonal character/timbre. Doesn't consider shift in balance between mids, highs and lows. Tonal character (timbre) is at least as important as volume and sustain. The more analytical among us hone in on just the things we can measure and ignore everything else. From a marketing standpoint, the measurable attributes work great. But it's only part of the story. Reading Andy Power's V-Class bracing article in Wood & Steel, I can't recall mention of impacts on timbre, yet in demo video after demo video on YouTube I felt like I was hearing some changes... As mentioned in my top post, I know between the models I A-B tested there certainly were. I also know Taylor in general is the most consistent builder guitar to guitar, so I do not think the changes I was hearing to timbre (the "mid-range scoop" on new the 914ce) can be attribute to it just being the usual "no two are exactly the same". They only had one new 914ce to try so I can't say this definitively, but I think it's very unlikely as in the demo videos I was hearing the same issue.

Fortunately for Taylor tonal character is subjective and the new V-Class braced guitars still sound like Taylor guitars, what my ears pick up on and find a turn-off others may feel is so nuanced that it just doesn't matter given the volume and sustain benefits. The one thing that is clear, Taylor is not going to admit to any weakness in the new V-Class bracing. Go back and watch all the videos they've put up, the official marketing videos on their channel and also the NAMM interview videos and you'll NEVER hear them say something like "we love our new V-Class bracing we hope you try it, but we know some traditional players may prefer X-braced guitars". That would be an honest statement. Instead of going down that path Taylor has let their reps go ahead and fill the public in on the companies intentions to transition every series 300 and up to V-Class bracing over the next few years. We know X-bracing is no longer a custom build option on the 914ce and K24ce so it will be interesting if they really phase X-bracing out altogether. To me this is a line in the sand moment for Taylor, from a business stand point it makes perfect sense why they align behind their new innovation and pretend there is no subjectivity to it's superiority.

It seems like such a little thing and it's a play we've seen in so many other industries, but Taylor's aggression and would say manipulative marketing ("manipulative" because they never acknowledge that player who may prefer X-bracing or acknowledge that it does slightly alter the timbre) it's something I really hope the guitar community continues to give them a hard time about, because if the community doesn't then it's going to force other builders to follow Taylor's lead. All marketing is at some level manipulative, but I don't recall Martin or Gibson going out of their way to hail an major innovation and then go on to push a narrative and pretend something subjective is objective.

C.F. Martin's transparency is something I've always found attractive about the company. In one of their presentation's at NAMM this year, Chris Martin states that they changed the lineup a bit to give dealers something new to offer customers. No grandiose talk-up about how superior the new models are to the old, Martin and even Gibson (who has done some crazy things like robo-tuners) leaves these things up to the community to decide. It's a more ethical, "let the product speak for itself" stance. It's a harsh word, but Taylor's tactics with the V-Class bracing launch are disgraceful and unforgivable. Unforgivable in the sense that they company just can't be trusted in the future. They will clearly say whatever they need to in order to try and sell product and grow their business. This is the dark side of Capitalism. Even with privately held companies, success just breeds more greed. I think there was a lot of room for more integrity in the V-Class bracing marketing and considering they are already outselling Gibson and Martin six to one some dealers are telling me, they have the head room to pick integrity over "let's do whatever we must to move product". But Taylor also has incredible muscle. The retail dealer network has to sell product to be successful and Taylor guitars sell very well. Dealers have incredible incentive to nod along the preach the gospel of Taylor. What does the retail clerk have to loose pushing Taylor's marketing narrative? Nothing really. They know behind the sell is a company that is great with post-sale customer service, they believe in Taylor as a company so they are glad to help convince customers V-Class bracing is the second coming of the acoustic guitar... This is win-win for retailers. The strategy will work. Taylor knows it will work, retailers know it will work.

This is how powerful marketing has become, it creates realities.

We live in interesting times where it's all about controlling the influences. This could be the local retail sells person, musicians or athletes giving product endorsements, it could be news personalities on Fox and CNN (won't go there, but this does apply to culture and politics as well). Once you control the influencers you control the masses. The only way to escape it all is to take the blinders off and embrace a bit of cynicism, become aware of the war going on by stealth marketing for every dollar you're going to spend, don't give 100% trust to anyone who stands to gain something from influencing you to buy something. As I found to be true with V-Class bracing, there's usually some element of truth behind marketing claims, but it's not the entire story.

I made an effort to understand why so many people are upset over pages of posts about this and now I clearly get it. To me, it will be down to if I like one or not. Not that I will buy, because I don't want any more guitars. Now, I have no clue about the science(s) involved in guitar making and it all boils down to if I like a guitar or not and I feel players will respond to that sense. Like you said, some will like them and some will not. What you wrote about the issue makes absolute sense to me and thank you for that.