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Old 07-10-2015, 02:47 AM
Idaho_Annie Idaho_Annie is offline
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Default Sight Reading Problems

Hi Guys,

I've been working on my sight reading lately. I'm okay with chord charts and know where the notes are on my guitar (at least in the first position) but I have a real problem translating complex rhythm patterns into music. Once a measure starts attacking me with eighth rests, quarter notes on the upbeat followed by triplet runs I get confused and can't make it sound right. If I know in advance what a song sounds like I can do it, but if I don't know the song, I'm in trouble.

So, here's my question...

Anyone know any sources to help with the rhythm aspect of sight reading....? I have a bunch of sight reading books, what I'm talking about is something that shows a complex rhythm, and then says something like " ta tee tee ta too dum dum" to help understand how the lick is supposed to go.....then I can just sit and do exercise after exercise till I get it....

I've been learning some Klezmer music and it has interesting rhythms....I want to get it right!

Thanks,

Annie
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Old 07-10-2015, 05:36 AM
stanron stanron is offline
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I don't know any online resources but when I used to teach this stuff I would get students to write a count beneath the staff in pencil. So in a score with 4/4 simple time where the smallest note is an eighth note under each bar you would have

1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +

and you would practice counting and playing one bar at a time until you could play that bar correctly in time (not at the correct speed at first but correctly in time with itself) so you could hear and remember that bar. Then you would do the same with the next bar and so on.

This is a painfully slow experience at first but if you persevere you will get better at it and able to do it quicker.

It helps if the music you choose is not too complex. If the music you choose is going to be a challenge for you to play once you have learned it then it will also be a bigger challenge for you to read it. Start with something which will be easy to play once you have learned to read it.
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Old 07-10-2015, 05:54 AM
Fruitloop Fruitloop is offline
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There is no shortcut, you have to keep reading easier scores and the ability to "hear" the rhythm while you read will come to you.

I suggest getting a book like 'modern method for guitar' (Leavitt) that gets progessively more complex as you work through it. Transcribing music has also helped me tremendously in this aspect.

Don't try to jump to complex stuff right away, keep it simple (whole/half/quarter notes and rests). When you are fluid with those incorporate smaller divisions, then triplets etc.

Remember: to run you first need the ability to crawl, then walk, THEN you can run.
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Old 07-10-2015, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho_Annie View Post
…Anyone know any sources to help with the rhythm aspect of sight reading....?
Hi Annie…
Since sight reading is all about cold reading of things you've never seen, it's all about developing the ability to scan ahead yet retain enough up-front-awareness to spot in the music where the group is actually playing.

I don't know anybody breaking out rhythms (outside the class-room) from standard notation to the Kodály style "ta ta ti ti ta" rhythms. You may be able to find some literature dealing with teaching/learning in a Kodály fashion. There has been research done in expanding the mono-syllabic approach of Kodály to include familiar language to learn chunks of rhythms.

Here's a fun chart currently circulating the internet dealing with those phrases. They are more obvious when you recite them in time and repeat them several times at tempo.



The only one I balk at is the Beef Ravioli because of the Beef being presumed to be a different rhythm than the way it's normally pronounced.

Kodály believed music was for everybody, and if we made it into games it would be more fun. It involved reciting rhythms, and sometimes clapping them as well (making them into fun exercises or games).

My degree in college was specialized in elementary music, and we combined both Orff and Kodály and integrated it with the daily classroom subjects of math, english (language), and science as well as 3 times a week music classes. I taught in a school which had spent 6 years establishing and teaching this method (1st year Kindergarten only, next year add 1st grade etc till they had every grade saturated).

We did about 10 minutes a day of Kodály rhythms, and by 5th grade, students who had accumulated a full 6 years worth of Orff and Kodály were amazing musicians who could play and sing about anything we put in front of them, and they really understood rhythm. Many of the 6th graders I taught were as proficient as many of the college music majors I was going to school with.

Kodály involves both recitation and clapping skills to establish an understanding of rhythm (both complex and simple).

This is not a widely taught method any more (my degree happened in 1967) and neither Mr Orff nor Mr Kodály are still with us, so there is little current writing or publishing happening in that arena. Hopefully this might lead you to some resources…

Have fun learning to sight read rhythms…there is no shortcut.




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Old 07-10-2015, 10:22 AM
Bingoccc Bingoccc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanron View Post
I don't know any online resources but when I used to teach this stuff I would get students to write a count beneath the staff in pencil. So in a score with 4/4 simple time where the smallest note is an eighth note under each bar you would have

1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +

and you would practice counting and playing one bar at a time until you could play that bar correctly in time (not at the correct speed at first but correctly in time with itself) so you could hear and remember that bar. Then you would do the same with the next bar and so on.

This is a painfully slow experience at first but if you persevere you will get better at it and able to do it quicker.

It helps if the music you choose is not too complex. If the music you choose is going to be a challenge for you to play once you have learned it then it will also be a bigger challenge for you to read it. Start with something which will be easy to play once you have learned to read it.

This is what I did when i first learned. Now and then, if a passage is troubling me I still go back and do this for those bars.
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Old 07-10-2015, 12:45 PM
amyFB amyFB is offline
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I use a marker and draw lines to draw vertical separations that show the short notes as a group that equals their whole note 'sections'.

sometimes, i find that the bass clef notes fall on the beat and that helps to identify where the separator belongs.

and the more short notes in a song, the slower my metronome is when i start.

hope that helps.
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Old 07-10-2015, 09:07 PM
DupleMeter DupleMeter is offline
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A number of years ago there was a great article in Berklee Today (Berklee College of Music's alumni magazine) called "Beyond The Imaginary Barline" that talked about rhythm groups and how to use them to better sight read rhythms by treating them the way we treat words when we learn to read (sight words become sight rhythms).

Here's the article online: https://www.berklee.edu/bt/201/lesson.html

It may be helpful in breaking down these rhythms to better grasp how they all come together.

On another note - I find that the more you read rhythms the better you get at reading them. So keep plugging along. I recommend that my students start by identifying all the downbeats in a measure (that would be beats 1, 2, 3 & 4 in a 4/4 measure) and then start putting it together from there.
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Old 07-11-2015, 10:57 PM
Idaho_Annie Idaho_Annie is offline
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Thanks to all of you for your input! I pulled out a ton of different levels of sheet music (from simple stuff like The Streets of Laredo to some difficult Klezmer) and I'm just going to go through a few pieces a day...

And ljguitar, that chart is great! I'm going to print it out and keep it on my music stand....

For anyone else interested in this topic, I did a Google search and found quite a few training sites...for example here is a flash based site that looks interesting:

http://www.therhythmtrainer.com/

We'll see if it helps!
Thanks again to all of you, I learn new stuff every time I come here...

Annie
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Old 07-13-2015, 11:50 AM
creamburmese creamburmese is offline
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Your question has pulled up lots of useful resources I'm enjoying! I would say that breaking down the counts works best for me - recently went to a Bossa Nova class where I was totally lost until I figured out for the simplest rhythm was on beats 1, 2 (3) AND (4)

Does Klezmer have some of that 11 count music? I had a music teacher describe the way they kept time by counting 1234 1234 123...
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Old 07-13-2015, 03:20 PM
Trevor B. Trevor B. is offline
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Hello Annie,
Here's a link to a method for learning to read rhythms. Although all the exercises are set in 4/4 they're readily adaptable to any time signature. These exercises helped me immensely, albeit a long time ago. It's really important to clap/sing these passages so they become fully assimilated. Good luck with your rhythm reading challenge.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/98537587/M...ruments#scribd
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Old 07-26-2015, 06:12 PM
Idaho_Annie Idaho_Annie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creamburmese View Post
Your question has pulled up lots of useful resources I'm enjoying! I would say that breaking down the counts works best for me - recently went to a Bossa Nova class where I was totally lost until I figured out for the simplest rhythm was on beats 1, 2 (3) AND (4)

Does Klezmer have some of that 11 count music? I had a music teacher describe the way they kept time by counting 1234 1234 123...
I am so sorry I just saw this question! My mind has been in other places lately! In my Klezmer book most of the songs are in 2/4. There are a few in 3/8, though. I love the Klezmer because of that mystical sounding minor runs they do...it's great stuff!

If you are interested in the book I'm using, it's The Compleat Klezmer (yes, that is how they spell compleat) by Henry Sapoznik.

Also, there is a nice little documentary floating around out there about Klezmer by the BBC....worth looking for!

Annie
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