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  #16  
Old 03-16-2018, 05:20 PM
bufflehead bufflehead is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Your perfect is my too low or too high. IMO setups from the factory (especially on more costly guitars where guitar tech setups make more financial sense) should be on the higher side.
Agreed. The factory doesn't know what strings I'll be using or how hard I intend to bang on them. My luthier does.
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  #17  
Old 03-16-2018, 06:11 PM
drive-south drive-south is offline
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If the nut is cut for lights and you put medium gage the strings will bind in the nut slots. In this case the slots will have to be filed for the heavier strings.
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  #18  
Old 03-16-2018, 06:36 PM
redir redir is offline
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I've been doing guitar repair for 27 years now and I can tell ya it would be next to impossible to get the action at the nut set up right by sanding the bottom. You could get close for sure but you would never get it perfect that way or if you did consider yourself lucky. THis is a top down job one string at a time. To get it just perfect you are one file stroke away from ruining it. That kind of accuracy is not possible from bottom up.
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  #19  
Old 03-16-2018, 06:48 PM
Jaden Jaden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redir View Post
I've been doing guitar repair for 27 years now and I can tell ya it would be next to impossible to get the action at the nut set up right by sanding the bottom. You could get close for sure but you would never get it perfect that way or if you did consider yourself lucky. THis is a top down job one string at a time. To get it just perfect you are one file stroke away from ruining it. That kind of accuracy is not possible from bottom up.
Exactly. It’s a fine tuning job best left to an experienced professional; almost all new guitars need this work done to alleviate hard action at the first fret.
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  #20  
Old 03-16-2018, 08:53 PM
Russ C Russ C is offline
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There is a "correct" height for nut slots - since good intonation is considered correct the nut should behave like a fret. That's how high the slots should be - and I agree with Redir, it's just slow and careful one slot at a time. We're removing small fractions of millimetres until it's right.

If someone wants a higher but well intonated first position then a compensated nut is for them.

I can see instantly if a guitar has been set up by a competent tech prior to me getting it, or not since leaving the factory .. and sometimes if the owner has had a go at it first.
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  #21  
Old 03-16-2018, 09:01 PM
TKT TKT is offline
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LOL. I finally bit the bullet and bought a set of nut files at about $78 for 6 from StewMac about 2 weeks ago, and adjusted two guitars. Much better than torch tip cleaner files. That's just me though.
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  #22  
Old 03-16-2018, 09:07 PM
TNO TNO is offline
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Set each strings height individually and then reshape the top of the nut so that about half the wound strings are exposed is what I do on my own guitars. Factory setups are, and should be, a little on the high side.
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  #23  
Old 03-16-2018, 09:49 PM
jaybones jaybones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxtheaxe View Post
My take on this...once the nut is fitted to the slot in the headstock, the nut slots should be properly measured & cut to depth, and then left alone. Action should be adjusted at the bridge after the neck relief is dialed in.
I couldn't agree more!

My first guitar, an Alvarez Regent I had been playing for several weeks, really picking it up quickly. I was playing more barre chords and learning scales and melody, and asked for the action to be lowered.

I thought they'd shave the bottom of the saddle, but instead they cut the nut slots deeper. Dialed in more relief so it wouldn't buzz.

Result was nice low action in the first frets but at the 12th fret literally could stack 3 quarters under the strings. All but unplayable except with extra light strings which sounded like crap for a couple days until they broke in. Too bright and jangly.

Exactly what I didn't want. The fact that the guy who did it was not the guy who was giving me lessons (partners), he probably thought I needed lower action for the open chords.

When I complained the guy said "Well, grab that Yari there and see how you like it. That's what a decent action feels like. Now, we'll give you $20 trade on your guitar. Of course you're going to want the hardcase which is an extra hundred bucks."

Yeah sure, thousand dollar Yari don't come with a fitted hardcase. And my budget didn't include a grand on a guitar.
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  #24  
Old 03-16-2018, 09:49 PM
guitar george guitar george is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redir View Post
I've been doing guitar repair for 27 years now and I can tell ya it would be next to impossible to get the action at the nut set up right by sanding the bottom. You could get close for sure but you would never get it perfect that way or if you did consider yourself lucky. THis is a top down job one string at a time. To get it just perfect you are one file stroke away from ruining it. That kind of accuracy is not possible from bottom up.
This is a excellent explanation of why it is better to file the grooves in the nut rather than sand the bottom of the nut to lower the strings..
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  #25  
Old 03-17-2018, 12:52 PM
Matthjs Matthjs is offline
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Thanks to all for the feedback. A lot of food for thought!
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  #26  
Old 03-17-2018, 01:10 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentKooper View Post
I disagree. It's very common for guitars to arrive from the factory with the nut a little too high. Adjusting that is a basic component of a pro setup, which most new guitars benefit from.
This has been my experience, too. Getting the nut slots filed down to just the right height makes playing 1st position chords much easier. Filing too much is a problem, so care must be exercised, of course.

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  #27  
Old 03-17-2018, 01:20 PM
Wozer Wozer is offline
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with the nut already installed the following things are present that aren't in a removed nut and trying to sand the bottom:

1: observation of actual fret height and how it will relate to slots

2: ability to slope slots as they relate to peghead angle

3: nut is already held in place removing the necessity of having a vise of the right caliber to hold the nut

as far as answering the OP's query, that's already been done with alacrity
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  #28  
Old 03-17-2018, 02:15 PM
maxtheaxe maxtheaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKT View Post
LOL. I finally bit the bullet and bought a set of nut files at about $78 for 6 from StewMac about 2 weeks ago, and adjusted two guitars. Much better than torch tip cleaner files. That's just me though.
Yep those files are the way to go; you might also consider, especially if you find yourself slotting nuts frequently, the Safe-slot system that Stewmac sells (I don't work for them, I swear!). Makes it virtually impossible to go too deep when slotting a nut, and ensures that they're all precisely the same depth.

I do reiterate, however that for setting action, you're far better off sanding the bottom of the saddle (on a hard, flat surface) once everything else is dialed in...it's far easier & cheaper to do, or to do over if you pooch it.
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  #29  
Old 03-17-2018, 02:42 PM
pjroberts pjroberts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sid45 View Post
I hear this after purchase talk a lot and I feel that you should be able to find a git. especially a costly one,, that is perfect.Saddles in particular are ify to lower due to the change in tone and volume.I understand people will disagree but the individuals after purchase cost and time plus the tone risks seems a bit crazy,
I will add Ive been guilty of all the above after purchase fiddleing and thats how I came to my current thoughts on the subject sid
This greatly limits your choice in guitars if you expect all good guitars to come from the factory perfectly set up to YOUR preferences. In fact many makers intentionally ship the guitars with higher nut side action (by way of nut string slot height) to give the buyer flexibility to customize it. A nut adjustment is relatively inexpensive way to fine tune playability, not as easy as adjustable seat settings in your car, but same concept once you dial in the saved seat setting. Even Taylor, sort of reknowned for out of box playbility, ships higher nut slots than many people prefer. If they didn’t do this you would have a much more expensive adjustment necessitating a new nut purchase and installation + adjustment. You just went from $20 to $75 (guesstimating).
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  #30  
Old 03-18-2018, 07:37 AM
slide496 slide496 is offline
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I file - or fill in with crazy glue and baking soda aand recut the individual groove to the way I want it. I don't want to change the angle or height globally - don't find it that easy to sand down straight accurately at all.

If I need to remove the nut and adjust globally - usually shim the nut since I play slide - I use tools from Stew Mac and follow youtube video instructions that I've seen. Iron on edge banding works well for me to shim nuts and then I use titebond and clamps to reset the nut
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