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  #76  
Old 07-23-2011, 08:59 AM
dirt1966 dirt1966 is offline
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I have owned many Martins over the years including Adi topped Martins. At the end of the day, the marginal difference between the two as a top wood I don't think it so huge. I think at the end of the day, you have to give the guitars a try and see which one works for you best.
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  #77  
Old 07-23-2011, 10:02 AM
Kevin A Kevin A is offline
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Originally Posted by Bluemonk View Post
So please don't presume to control my behavior.
So...can we officially bury this thread & resurrect it in another 2 years?
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  #78  
Old 07-23-2011, 10:33 AM
Landru Landru is offline
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Originally Posted by Kevin A View Post
So...can we officially bury this thread & resurrect it in another 2 years?
Probably be more like two weeks.
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  #79  
Old 09-14-2014, 01:00 PM
Pheof Pheof is offline
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Whelp, here's my $1.49 ...
I'll compare my 2011 Gibson Hummingbird to my 2014 to my Martin HD-16R:

Gibson Hummingbird: solid Sitka spruce-

Visual:
-Tight yet not overly pronounced vertical grain.
-Nice amount of cross grain which looks slightly flamey at no more than 10ft away in good lighting.

Sound:
-Plenty of rolling Bass.
-Balanced amount of Mids
-"Normal" amount of Treble
-Pronounced pick attack (probably more due to the Mahogany body).
-"Normal" amount of overtones.
-This guitar simply sounds fabulous.


Martin HD-16R: solid Adirondack spruce-

Visual:
-Medium grain in center which gets narrower as it reaches the outer edges.
-Not much cross grain or "flame" to speak of.

Sound:
-"Normal" amount of bass.
-"Normal" amount of mids. Definitely not pronounced.
-Crystal clear trebles.
-A great amount of note separation.
-Overtones which wobble, morph, and interact with each other as chords decay (all of which are quite an experience).
-Quick attack
-Detailed note separation to the point where every intonation discrepancy becomes audible where other tops can hide it.
-Incredible sustain.
-Obvious increased dynamic response whether playing soft or hard, with a pick or fingerpicking.

Other-

I know each guitar can vary incredibly. And there are cheap guitars that sound better than expensive ones. But those generalizations aside, I can only say that I love both of the guitars I listed and can say without a doubt that the Adirondack spruced Martin has perhaps a 5D sound. There's just so much more going on.
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  #80  
Old 09-15-2014, 08:44 PM
TaylorJoe TaylorJoe is offline
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Just an observation, the new Taylor 814s (I think the whole range actually) has Sitka tops with Adirondack bracing - Taylor reckon this combination gives about 90% the same tonal characters as Adirondack tops with Sitka Bracing. (check out the Taylor site or youtube for this) BUT for much less cost.
Although I have to agree with the comment that it may be down to the builder/designer in the end. Like most people I got told that adirondack was the way to go it at all affordable, like $1000 more for an Adi top than a sitka. Is it worth that much to me, well for the small difference I could hear back then... not really... now about 20 yrs later... maybe ;-)
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  #81  
Old 02-24-2024, 06:55 AM
Johnpjones Johnpjones is offline
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I have bought many guitars over the years. All Sitka. Sold all of them. Have 2 Adirondack. Not saying they are necessarily better. Just different. Sitka is too common for me and nothing stands out about it. Almost all vintage music with guitars were done with Adirondack. Some say that's because the trees were the closest to the builders. But perhaps most other wood wasn't used because Adirondack is just that good. Sitka has been around for a long time. Back when Adirondack was more plentiful I wonder why someone didn't say. Hey these Sitka are much larger, taller and older than Adirondack. Let's build guitars with them instead. Instead the day came when they realized. Well we have to come up with plan B. Adirondack is no longer available.
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  #82  
Old 02-24-2024, 08:30 AM
phavriluk phavriluk is offline
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Originally Posted by Howard Klepper View Post
I don't build flattop guitars with Sitka. I do build them with Adirondack. I've heard a lot of good Sitka flattop guitars, but I can't recall hearing a great one. I've heard some great ones made with Adirondack (European, too). My interest is in building great guitars if I can. That appears to be much less likely if I were to use Sitka.

I have had very good results using Sitka on archtops, though.
Howard, I accept your reasoning with a BIG qualification: If I was peddling wood, I'd sure try to brand as much as I could as the more in-demand species. Especially as they are so similar and the cosmetic overlap is all but thorough, I think there's just plain no way to tell one from another. And the retailer may very well be as innocent as can be, as HIS vendor played the same (and worked the same) fiddle. I think this ascribing wonderful qualities to one is a close relative to judging the works of the emperor's tailor.

I like the clarity and logic of the pizza discussion.
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  #83  
Old 02-24-2024, 10:46 AM
GuitarsFromMars GuitarsFromMars is offline
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In the conversation regarding acoustic guitar tops:

I think that to a certain degree, the builder is the reason Sitka can sound grand or mediocre. Construction and top bracing/tuning, play a large role in the tone of an instrument build.

I was told in the last 4 or 5 years (or so), that there is no quality Adirondack left. It can't be found, according to David Wilcox (talking about his 1996 Olson).

The one builder I have spoken with, says Adirondack takes time to 'open up' and that he has a hard time getting to hear it, because his completed builds leave the shop within a couple weeks.

My guitar is Sitka topped and I am stunned as to how good it sounds compared to other Sitka topped guitars I have owned. In fact it may be the best sounding acoustic guitar I have heard since 1971.
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Last edited by GuitarsFromMars; 02-24-2024 at 11:24 AM.
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  #84  
Old 02-24-2024, 11:19 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phavriluk View Post
Howard, I accept your reasoning with a BIG qualification: If I was peddling wood, I'd sure try to brand as much as I could as the more in-demand species. Especially as they are so similar and the cosmetic overlap is all but thorough, I think there's just plain no way to tell one from another. And the retailer may very well be as innocent as can be, as HIS vendor played the same (and worked the same) fiddle. I think this ascribing wonderful qualities to one is a close relative to judging the works of the emperor's tailor.

I like the clarity and logic of the pizza discussion.
First, you're responding to a 15 year old comment.
Second, just because YOU can't tell the difference doesn't mean people with expertise in tonewoods and have been working with them for a long time can't tell the difference.

But to your point, sure, some disreputable dealer might get it in their head to try to pass one off as the other, but as soon as that dealer is found out, what happens? Their reputation is shot and a lot of builders won't want to do business with them.
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2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi
2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce

along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos.

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  #85  
Old 02-24-2024, 01:24 PM
phavriluk phavriluk is offline
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Jim, you're certainly right about how a shady vendor might try to pass off one species as another, but an innocent vendor might also sell misidentified lumber because the mill told the vendor and the log vendor told the mill....there's neither a certification process nor a visual inspection that is definitive... and the buyers swoon over their prized 'Adirondack' spruce that came all the way from the Pacific northwest rain forest. And an enthusiast gushes over how come guitar 'x' sounds as it does by virtue of the 'Adirondack' soundboard that came from a tree grown somewhere near the Pacific Ocean. Sure about that?
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  #86  
Old 02-24-2024, 11:37 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phavriluk View Post
Jim, you're certainly right about how a shady vendor might try to pass off one species as another, but an innocent vendor might also sell misidentified lumber because the mill told the vendor and the log vendor told the mill....there's neither a certification process nor a visual inspection that is definitive... and the buyers swoon over their prized 'Adirondack' spruce that came all the way from the Pacific northwest rain forest. And an enthusiast gushes over how come guitar 'x' sounds as it does by virtue of the 'Adirondack' soundboard that came from a tree grown somewhere near the Pacific Ocean. Sure about that?
And the same applies to the shady mill as would to the shady tonewood dealer. As soon as you're caught in that deception, your reputation is shot and people will stop doing business with you. And again, you assume because YOU cannot tell the difference that experts in tonewood cannot tell the difference. That's an argument from credulity and a logical fallacy.
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2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi
2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce

along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos.

YouTube
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  #87  
Old 02-25-2024, 01:12 AM
Russ C Russ C is offline
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I have both and I have of course played many, many more of each and I generally prefer the sound I have come to associate with Sitka.
Better or not? That is surely defined by what most players want - sonically.
There are small generalised differences between the species that also quite often do not apply to individual pieces but if we could survey the whole guitar playing population of Earth after blind testing we’d have an answer I reckon.
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