Sipo vs Mahogany

[Mr. Jelly]

How does Sipo sound verses mahogany? Really. Has anyone here A B'd them? I know all about how they are similar and how they are different but I'm curious about any sound differences.

[rusty string]

sound wise no difference. some people say there is i really can't tell any.

[rokdog49]

How about Sapele?

[CT77]

I've always been a bit confused by this. Aparently, my OMC-15me isn't genuine mohagany, but rather Sipo, Sepele, or both. Martin doesn't specify.

In any case, I think there are real differences, but I don't know if/how much they affect a guitar's sound.

For reference:
Mahogany Mixups: the Lowdown

Update: after reading the section on "Utile" (Sipo) and Sepele, titled "The Periphery: Meliaceae", I'm pretty sure my guitar is all Sipo/Utile based on the striping pattern description. I've definitely seen "Mahogany" 15 series with clear uniform striping that fits the "Sepele" description better. I might be reading into this part, but I think Sepele may be slightly stiffer, while Sipo is slightly softer, and that could have an effect. The article does say that Sipo lacks the "dimensional stability of genuine mahogany".

[Rosewood99]

Originally Posted by CT77

I've always been a bit confused by this. Aparently, my OMC-15me isn't genuine mohagany, but rather Sipo, Sepele, or both. Martin doesn't specify.

In any case, I think there are real differences, but I don't know if/how much they affect a guitar's sound.

For reference:
Mahogany Mixups: the Lowdown

Depends on the year it was made. I have read that it used to be mahogany the switched to sapele but has recently gone back to mahogany.

[madhat]

I think Sipo is the perfect substitute for mahogany- very similar organic voice in my experience.

Sonically Sapele usually doesn't sound like mahogany to me- it seems to have its own thing going on.

Have fun!

madhat.

[Athens]

There's a recent thread about Martin using "Genuine Mahogany" on some instruments and just "mahogany" on others, so I won't go into that......

BUT, my personal opinion is that with woods that closely related, tonally, the difference is negligible and there would be as much variation in tone from model to model in mass produced guitars.

Again, just my opinion, but I'm sticking to it.

[YeOldRocker]

Originally Posted by Athens

There's a recent thread about Martin using "Genuine Mahogany" on some instruments and just "mahogany" on others, so I won't go into that......

BUT, my personal opinion is that with woods that closely related, tonally, the difference is negligible and there would be as much variation in tone from model to model in mass produced guitars.

Again, just my opinion, but I'm sticking to it.

No, I think you're right. I'd formed a strong opinion on sapele (negative) when I first played a guitar using it, and blamed the wood. It sounded, to my ear, extremely lifeless against another model that used mahogany. A few weeks later, I had the opposite reaction to several different models, where the sapele sounded great. My conclusion, ultimately, is that it was the guitar models and their internal voicing that made the difference, not the choice of sapele or mahogany.

[Swamp Yankee]

Taylor is up front about it when they use mahogany VS sapele - their comment on sapele is that it's similar to hog but, well...here's what they say:

Sapele - An alternative tonewood that joined the Taylor fold over a decade ago. It’s sometimes mistakenly referred to as African mahogany because it closely resembles the West African wood khaya, which is commercially known as African mahogany. Sapele is a highly sustainable, relatively fast-growing wood. Tonally, it does everything that mahogany does, with a little extra treble zing. We’ll be able to offer it for a long, long time.

[madhat]

Originally Posted by Swamp Yankee

Taylor is up front about it when they use mahogany VS sapele - their comment on sapele is that it's similar to hog but, well...here's what they say:

Sapele - An alternative tonewood that joined the Taylor fold over a decade ago. It’s sometimes mistakenly referred to as African mahogany because it closely resembles the West African wood khaya, which is commercially known as African mahogany. Sapele is a highly sustainable, relatively fast-growing wood. Tonally, it does everything that mahogany does, with a little extra treble zing. We’ll be able to offer it for a long, long time.

It is that "extra treble zing" that I am not keen on when it comes to Sepele.

madhat.

[Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by madhat

It is that "extra treble zing" that I am not keen on when it comes to Sepele.

madhat.

Then it's a good thing that Taylor lets folks know up front what woods they're using.

I know there's quite a variation in the appearance of Martin "mahogany" -15 series guitars I see in stores and online - and quite a few look like sapele to me.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by madhat

It is that "extra treble zing" that I am not keen on when it comes to Sepele.

madhat.

I want to think that is Marketing mumbo-jumbo.
I would have to compare two identical guitars with the two different woods and even then it wouldn't really prove anything.

Michael Dickinson, wood buyer for C.F. Martin:

"I don't want to take all the credit for introducing Sipo to Martin Guitar, just 97.5%. I was in the Republic of Congo, Africa when I saw these logs being milled. It looked, worked and had a tap tone like Mahogany. When I found out it was a relative of Sapele, I went WOW this is a wood we need to start using. I do think out of all the "cousins" of mahogany.. Cedar, Sapele, African Mahogany... Sipo has the most similar tonal qualities to genuine Mahogany."


http://blog.martinguitar.com/blog/as...ood-purchasing

[DenverSteve]

Not to over simplify but that's like asking what blue looks like. Too many variables. Just find a great guitar and buy it.

[Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

I want to think that is Marketing mumbo-jumbo.
I would have to compare two identical guitars with the two different woods and even then it wouldn't really prove anything.

I'm thinking, because they are open about it when they use sapele, instead of just calling it "mahogany" as Martin does, Taylor has put themselves in a position where they feel they ought to provide a description of how sapele differs from real mahogany.

If that description claimed "sapele's tone is identical to that of mahogany so just buy the guitar and play it" I'm sure there would be any number of people calling them out on it.