Recommendations for sub $1K Acoustic Archtop?

[trumpus]

I'm thinking about adding a new flavor of acoustic and have gotten the itch for an archtop. I am looking to spend less than $1K (or close) and don't need an electric/jazz style pickup as I am more interested in strumming/singing with it rather than jazz. I've come across the following new guitars in my price range:

-Epiphone Masterbilt Century Deluxe Classic
-Godin 5th Avenue
-Gretsch New Yorker G9550
-The Loar LH-600

At the higher end or somewhat over my budget, I've found:
The Loar LH-700
Vintage Gibson L-48 or L-50 in decent shape.

Any thoughts on any of these? Recommendations otherwise? Anyone got one they are looking to unload?

Brian

[MC5C]

As an acoustic guitar, you need to hear it to tell if you like it. Some people love the sound of a Godin 5th Avenue, but to me it sounds quite dead, no depth of tone, no shimmer. I've played (and own, frankly) vintage archtops that aren't much better, but I also have a wonderful acoustic archtop that sounds great. The problem is I had to make it to get it, an equivalent guitar would be $5K from a luthier. My recommendation is always this: try really hard to find a good acoustic archtop to hear and learn what one sounds like, then decide what you like about it, and try to find that sound. I have heard that Eastmans are hand carved solid top, and on an archtop a hand carved solid back is also very important to the tone. I would try the best one of those I could find, then work through what is available to you.

Brian

[mr. beaumont]

For a "new" purely acoustic instrument, under 1k, the Loar is the choice. They're very good "raw materials" guitars, expect that you might need to put a little work into them to make them as playable as you want. The one I owned had a few high frets and a poorly cut nut, for example.

Also bear in mind the non-cutaway, purely acoustic models have a "V" shaped neck, which you'll either love or NOT. I could never get used to it, which was a bummer, as I really liked the way the guitar sounded.

[Steve DeRosa]

A Godin 5th Avenue is the only acoustic archtop currently in my stable, and I can be perfectly happy with my little $500 comp box until I find exactly what I'm looking for; I've tried all the others you list, so I'll give you my impressions:

• Epiphone Deluxe Classic: should be far better than it is, in all respects (apparently the Masterbilt flattop mojo got lost somewhere along the way); maybe I'm spoiled because, as a native New Yorker who's been in this game for 55 years, I've played too many of the originals (and owned a '46 Blackstone), but the new Century Series as a whole lacks the combination of cutting power and midrange creaminess (what old-time players used to refer to as "the velvet") that even my all-laminated Godin possesses; it's also got a fat, heavy, baseball-bat neck patterned after a generic '30s profile that ironically never appeared on any New York Epi - you're going to be fighting this one all the way...
• Gretsch New Yorker: designed/priced to "one-up" the 5th Avenue by including a solid (some say pressed, some say machine-carved) top, this one's thin, edgy, and lacking in projection - not even in the same league as the much-maligned (unjustly IMO) all-laminated Brooklyn-built New Yorkers of the '50s/60s, much less the 5th Avenue; if you must have a Gretsch try to find a good used (or NOS - there may still be a few available) MIJ 17" Synchromatic 400 non-cutaway - looks better, plays better, sounds better, and I'm sorry I didn't get one myself when they were still readily available...
• Loar LH-600: a latter-day rendition of the rare early-30's 16" L-12, these can be great guitars - if you get a good one; while I've never noticed any issues with the ones I've played, some owners have cited problems with the neck geometry - extremely important for any archtop; if you're OK with the period-accurate deep-V 1-3/4" neck (this one's real beefy - not a modern V by any stretch - so be aware of this if you buy sight unseen/unplayed) don't be afraid to take a chance - IMO they're about as good as it gets until you step up to the carved Eastmans...
• Loar LH-700: the Eddie Lang/Mother Maybelle L-5 recreation, made to a higher standard of materials/QC than the 600, but the neck caveat still applies...
• Gibson L-48/L-50: the gateway to the vintage archtop world for many players, these can be fine-sounding/playing guitars, the principal difference being the laminated top of the -48 versus the carved top of the -50 (interestingly enough, the laminated top doesn't have the same deleterious effect on tone it does in a flattop - something double bass makers have known for over a century); some periods are better than others - IMO the 1955-1965 models (the final period of full-scale production) possess the best combination of tone, playability, quality, and price...

Another good option is the aforementioned New York Epiphones, especially those from the '40s/50s; tremendously undervalued in the market - you can easily pay 3-4 times as much for certain equivalent Gibsons - these were/are top-tier vintage instruments in every sense of the word, made with the same quality materials and hand craftsmanship as the Gibsons and Martins of the period and only surpassed (arguably, in the opinion of some players) by the likes of Stromberg and D'Angelico. Although they turn up with less frequency than Gibsons, they can still be found in reasonable numbers in their old home turf here in the Northeast corridor - and well worth the search...

[trumpus]

Thanks for all of the great info!

There's a place nearby that has a 5th Avenue - will plan to check it out this week. I cannot find any of the others anywhere near me, so will see how the 5th Avenue sounds and then go from there!

Brian

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by trumpus

...There's a place nearby that has a 5th Avenue - will plan to check it out this week. I cannot find any of the others anywhere near me, so will see how the 5th Avenue sounds and then go from there...

Voice of Experience here with a PSA: 5th Avenues come from the factory with light-gauge strings - 11-52 TMK - so unless you're strictly playing Gypsy jazz you're going to be losing a lot of tone/volume; if you're seriously considering it, install a set of mediums on your own nickel (pun intended) so you can fairly assess the capabilities...

[tdq]

Just a small note: I have a Loar 700 which I picked up used for under $1K - I love it but I had to do a fair bit of tweaking. Also the nut, even though spec'd at 1 3/4" is actually 1 11/16", at least on mine. I would much prefer the slightly wider nut but to some it's not an issue.

[MC5C]

As an acoustic guitar, you need to hear it to tell if you like it. Some people love the sound of a Godin 5th Avenue, but to me it sounds quite dead, no depth of tone, no shimmer. I've played (and own, frankly) vintage archtops that aren't much better, but I also have a wonderful acoustic archtop that sounds great. The problem is I had to make it to get it, an equivalent guitar would be $5K from a luthier. My recommendation is always this: try really hard to find a good acoustic archtop to hear and learn what one sounds like, then decide what you like about it, and try to find that sound. I have heard that Eastmans are hand carved solid top, and on an archtop a hand carved solid back is also very important to the tone. I would try the best one of those I could find, then work through what is available to you.

Brian

[Neonzapper]

The Godin 5th Avenue is a proper affordable jazz instrument made in Canada and assembled in U.S.A. It is also used by working musicians.

[Dadzmad]

I've got the non cutaway Kingpin with the neck P90 and I love it. It's a very good modern take on a ES125 type low to middle end plywood every-man's archtop of 65 years ago. Is it a good jazz guitar? - I don't know I can't play that stuff. But I do know it can for sure dance around that Memphis Sun Records sound.

Like Steve said above these need heavier strings to do them justice (I use 0.13 Monel Retros on mine). For unplugged playing around the house or with another that has a flat top the Kingpin works well. The P90, wiring and pots does not really degrade the unplugged sound IMHO.

I plug this into an Excelsior Pro (6v6 tube set with a 15" Eminence Legend) and it has a great ballsy voice in the mic channel and sounds beautiful along with a Telecaster in the guitar channel when plugged into this amp at the same time.

These can be had for 5 bills these days and I think you can't go wrong with a Kingpin if you want an archtop in that price range.

While we are on the subject, I searched for a vintage Gibson ES125 for several years. What I found is that since they are all close to my age - and like me time has taken it's toll on most of them. The ones that are in great shape go for 3 or 4 times the money we are talking above. I got my Kingpin used like new (great action and no problems).

[slewis]

I have very little experience with archtops but also wanted to diversify the stable a bit a few years ago and, FWIW, I am happy with my Godin 5th Avenue, although I do play it mostly amplified and did have a rosewood bridge put on it...

[ericmeyer4]

I've owned the 5th avenue (several times) and I liked it, but if you are looking for jazz oriented archtop sound you may want to look at the Loars or Eastmans. Maybe even the new Epiphones (but I have no experience with them).

While the all acoustic 5th is a nice guitar it seemed to have more of a flattop sound in an archtop package.

As mentioned, heavier strings and a new bridge are a plus for the 5th. At a minimum make sure that the stock bridge is seated well to the body. This may take a bit of sand paper.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Dadzmad

I've got the non-cutaway Kingpin with the neck P90 and I love it. It's a very good modern take on a ES125 type low- to middle-end plywood everyman's archtop of 65 years ago...I plug this into an Excelsior Pro (6v6 tube set with a 15" Eminence Legend) and it has a great ballsy voice in the mic channel and sounds beautiful along with a Telecaster in the guitar channel when plugged into this amp at the same time...

Sounds like you've got the classic post-war blues rig there: single-pickup non-cut archtop, low-power tube amp with a 15" speaker - all you need now is a set of good NOS/JAN tubes, a zoot suit, and a .32 H&R and straight razor for when the audience gets a bit too, um, enthusiastic...

[whd28]

Brian - sent you a pm.
Bill

[campusfive]

Of the guitars you mentioned, the only "real" acoustic archtop - i.e. fully carved top and back - is the Loar LH-600/700. Sure a vintage L50 (pre-war ones are way better) would be great but, it's super hard to find one that cheap worth playing.

I've played any number of LH-600's and several LH-700, and with a proper setup, they will sound great. The QC is commensurate to a sub $1000 asian factory-made guitar. But the wood is solid and carved, and none of the new options can hold a candle to it acoustically.

Steve, I'm not sure the distinction you're making between the 600/700 as one being "early 30's" and the other being "Mother Maybelle/Eddie Lang". Both are modeled on a dot-neck '28-'29 16" L-5, with the 700 being the nicer version - i.e. nicer wood, gold hardware, extra headstock inlay, better QC. Other than those things, they're identical.

If you can find an Eastman 605, 610 or 805 or 810 for under a grand, that would also be nice choice - probably better sounding, but more modern looking.