Eastman pickups

jimmy bookout · #1 10-06-2014, 01:16 PM

I wanted to post about this (pickups on Eastman archtops) and a discovery. I have a 2009 Eastman Pagelli PG2 with a floating Kent Armstrong (far east made). I have always disliked the pickup....noisy, doesn't sound good, etc. So, a friend just got a new Buscarino with a Bartolini floating pickup and it sounds perfect. Long story short, I ordered a Bartolini and had it installed on the Eastman, 100% better in every way. No doubt, folks out there are happy with the Asian Kent Armstrong's and that's fine. One man's opinion.

Jimmy

louparte · #2 10-06-2014, 04:46 PM

My Kent Armstrong is quiet & warm. I suspect made in Korea.
It was around 100 USD at Stew Mac. I'm happy with it.

Oops. I don't own an Eastman. Maybe I shouldn't have chimed in on this thread.
Anyway, I've made a lot of recordings with my floating KA Mini-Humbucker.
It works well on my arrangements.

artistic · #3 10-07-2014, 08:49 AM

I removed the Korean Kent Armstrong from my Eastman 905 and replaced it with the handmade 12 pole KA.This pickup was made by Aaron Armstrong (Kent's son) in Kent,England,confusing isn't it.
This is a wonderful pickup.Unbelievable improvement over the stock version,very transparent and natural,almost acoustic sounding and real quality service.
I'm sure the original American versions are just the same.Certainly worth considering.

mhs · #4 10-07-2014, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmy bookout

I wanted to post about this (pickups on Eastman archtops) and a discovery. I have a 2009 Eastman Pagelli PG2 with a floating Kent Armstrong (far east made). I have always disliked the pickup....noisy, doesn't sound good, etc. So, a friend just got a new Buscarino with a Bartolini floating pickup and it sounds perfect. Long story short, I ordered a Bartolini and had it installed on the Eastman, 100% better in every way. No doubt, folks out there are happy with the Asian Kent Armstrong's and that's fine. One man's opinion.

Jimmy

I went the Bartolini route long ago with a Gibson L4-C that I played live for years and I loved the Bartolini pickup. One day it just lost all it's treble and was degraded to useless. The only thing I didn't like about the Bartolini was that it had non-adjustable pole-pieces, which the handmade Armstrong does have. (well, even the Korean one has 12 adjustable pole pieces). If you tend to try out various strings (including phosphor bronze), you just have to have adjustable pole pieces. I've been looking at getting one of those Armstrong hand-made ones and I think the only place I'm seeing any is on ebay Australia. (so, perhaps a month to get one).

Regarding the Bartolini: The Gibson originally had a Johnny Smith floating pickup which was too traditional sounding for me. I like a broad spectrum of tones. The service from Bartolini was pretty much non-existent at the time so I just put the Johnny Smith back on and play it about once every two years.

The guitar I'm interested in putting the Armstrong on is my Eastman which has the Korean pickup which I don't mind, but that Bartolini sound spoiled me and I'm curious about how the US/European Armstrong pickups sound. The reason (I think) I'm finding it hard to find a handmade Kent Armstrong pickup in the U.S. is probably because I want the non-floating version that mounts into the top of the guitar (which is what I have on the Eastman) and the floating ones are pretty common, but not the surface mount.

Archtop Guy · #5 10-08-2014, 09:12 AM

Seems like we're slowly diverging into a general archtop PU discussion.. so I'll go along!

People like all kinds of PUs for all kinds of reasons, and I believe that's not only because we all hear different sounds in our heads, but also because we all use different kinds of guitars, amps, cables, amp settings, guitar volume and tone settings, etc. Viva la difference!

I had a Bartolini floater on my '77 L-5C when I bought it. I kept the PU for several years but it slowly lost favor because it was mid heavy and lacked any top end. That might be good for some folks but for me I wanted a more natural reproduction of the guitar's acoustic qualities. I agree with Papol that the lack of adjustable polepieces is a real negative for me too.

I replaced it with a Lollar Johnny Smith, which I was so happy with that I now have it on two guitars. First off, I'm a huge fan of Johnny Smith's style and tone, so it's a good place to start for me. JS always went for a very flat frequency response on his amps, i.e. he didn't roll off the treble or boost the bass, and the Lollar JS is really good at this sound. The Lollar is slightly lower output than comparable pickups that I researched, and that helps for that original JS sound. For me, anyway.

Anyway, we're all agreeing that the PU is an important part of the tone chain for us archtop guys, but it still needs to play well with all the other pieces of the chain, including our ears.

Daddyo · #6 10-08-2014, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papol

I went the Bartolini route long ago with a Gibson L4-C that I played live for years and I loved the Bartolini pickup. One day it just lost all it's treble and was degraded to useless. The only thing I didn't like about the Bartolini was that it had non-adjustable pole-pieces, which the handmade Armstrong does have. (well, even the Korean one has 12 adjustable pole pieces). If you tend to try out various strings (including phosphor bronze), you just have to have adjustable pole pieces. I've been looking at getting one of those Armstrong hand-made ones and I think the only place I'm seeing any is on ebay Australia. (so, perhaps a month to get one).

Regarding the Bartolini: The Gibson originally had a Johnny Smith floating pickup which was too traditional sounding for me. I like a broad spectrum of tones. The service from Bartolini was pretty much non-existent at the time so I just put the Johnny Smith back on and play it about once every two years.

The guitar I'm interested in putting the Armstrong on is my Eastman which has the Korean pickup which I don't mind, but that Bartolini sound spoiled me and I'm curious about how the US/European Armstrong pickups sound. The reason (I think) I'm finding it hard to find a handmade Kent Armstrong pickup in the U.S. is probably because I want the non-floating version that mounts into the top of the guitar (which is what I have on the Eastman) and the floating ones are pretty common, but not the surface mount.

Djangobooks has the handmade adjustable pickup KA that is PAF style mount.

http://www.djangobooks.com/Item/kent...e-built-in-paf

mhs · #7 10-08-2014, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daddyo

Djangobooks has the handmade adjustable pickup KA that is PAF style mount.

http://www.djangobooks.com/Item/kent...e-built-in-paf

Hey - Thanks for the steer. Wasn't aware of that website until now.

Edit: After talking to Michael at DjangoBooks today, I ordered the handmade built-in PAF (KA) so I'll check back whenever I get it and install and test-drive it. It's beyond me to figure out whether pickups change over time or it's me that changes (well, I know I'm changing..), but I've got so many recordings of this guitar with the Korean KA that I should be able to record something and see what the difference is, if any.

mhs · #8 10-09-2014, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by artistic

I removed the Korean Kent Armstrong from my Eastman 905 and replaced it with the handmade 12 pole KA.This pickup was made by Aaron Armstrong (Kent's son) in Kent,England,confusing isn't it.
This is a wonderful pickup.Unbelievable improvement over the stock version,very transparent and natural,almost acoustic sounding and real quality service.
I'm sure the original American versions are just the same.Certainly worth considering.

Hi,

I hadn't noticed this reply. This is what I'm about to do, but with an old Eastman with one built-in KA. I just ordered the handmade 12-pole and am curious if you've got any recordings online somewhere.

Thanks either way. Cheers

Daddyo · #9 10-10-2014, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papol

Hi,

I hadn't noticed this reply. This is what I'm about to do, but with an old Eastman with one built-in KA. I just ordered the handmade 12-pole and am curious if you've got any recordings online somewhere.

Thanks either way. Cheers

Look on youtube for a the Eastman Pisano. It comes with a built in KA handwound.

mhs · #10 10-10-2014, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daddyo

Look on youtube for a the Eastman Pisano. It comes with a built in KA handwound.

Nice. To my ear, this low-view video of some type of archtop with the pickup (KA) sounds quite a bit nicer. It's recorded under better conditions than the other one. I like the sound on this one for some of it anyway.

Thanks.

Yunzhi with KA Handmade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grvjy5vN-Mw

mhs · #11 10-16-2014, 05:45 PM

Here's an update on the KA handmade PAF: I just got it in the mail and noticed that though ordered from DjangoBooks.com, it was shipped direct from Kent Armstrong Pickups in Grafton, VT.

Looks really nice, shouldn't be any problems getting it in, but I'm in the middle of other work so it might be a couple of days. I also have to have a working guitar for a gig this weekend but I suspect I'll have to whip that thing into the guitar soon so I can try it before I get to the gig. It came with a sheet of what looks like hand-drawn diagrams for wiring, some wire, and some other stuff.

I'll update when I've heard it in a few different circumstances and perhaps do a recording. I've got plenty of "before" already, so just an after or 10 ;)

Glennwillow · #12 10-16-2014, 06:56 PM

Hi Mickey,

I will be very interested to hear what you think of the handmade Kent Armstrong pickup. I have been generally happy with the KA pickup in my Eastman archtop, but anything can be made better, and this handmade KA pickup may be a good answer.

Thanks, Glenn

mhs · #13 10-16-2014, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Hi Mickey,

I will be very interested to hear what you think of the handmade Kent Armstrong pickup. I have been generally happy with the KA pickup in my Eastman archtop, but anything can be made better, and this handmade KA pickup may be a good answer.

Thanks, Glenn

I'll be sure to keep posting about it in this thread when I get it on there correctly. I yanked out the old pickup to get a look at the wiring and depth and ran into my first little problem. The square into the wood is cut to exactly match the Korean KA, but not to match the handmade one. The new one has two screws on one side and one on the other, so of course, there's a little side-block that is way bigger on one side, and a little bigger on the other.

I have all the hardware, so it doesn't look too daunting for that part. Then the wiring is interesting. The hand-made can be wired in serial or parallel and I'm thinking why would a guitar with no switch ever be wired in parallel? I don't know since the Korean KA just has a wire coming out of it, period. I can't see how the controls are wired ;) . So getting more fun by the moment. Also: The height out of the little frame that the pickup can poke up seems right for a bridge pickup, (which I don't have and don't want) and wrong (short by about 3/16") for a neck pickup. Before I get too far, I need to email KA and ask him about this. Maybe there are two types of PAF-0 handmade pickups that are body-mounted. I can see a way to get by that problem by leaving the springs out, but aren't sure whether that's a good idea since they serve some sort of vibration isolation function (they are there, anyway).

If a guy I know is around town here in San Diego, I'll ask him if he wouldn't mind installing this for me. He's a craftsman and an electronics engineer and guitarist so he would do a much better job of this than me. If this wasn't my main guitar I wouldn't sweat it, but I don't want to start playing my old Gibson again because this one was messed up by me.

Basically I like the Korean KA fine, especially for the first 4 years I had it, but the response died down a bit over the last year. I'm not sure why but to my ears it doesn't sound quite as good as it did so this is worth a shot. I guess I can do this myself as long as I'm sure I can get the old pickup back in just in case this one isn't the right sound for it.

mhs · #14 10-17-2014, 02:56 PM

I'm on take 1 of pickup install which mostly means that I need to pull it apart one more time (I've got to go out for a few hours now) later and do this:

1) enlarge the "tab" cutout by about another 1-3/100" so that it is 100% flush. It looks flush now but isn't quite.

2) strain-relief the new wiring which worked fine. I wired the 6 tabs as one serial pickup, ran hot & ground to the old cable but left it all open until I was sure it worked well.

Here's an image, a poor phone image of just after first install:

Also I didn't have any black corner screws but that's easy.

Sound: Yikes! Everything I thought was lost from this guitar is back from a frequencies standpoint. It is much better on the high end as well as having a cleaner sound all around. I need to adjust poles a bit, but it's fairly close. There is zero hum, of course, and as far as being "better" than the Korean one, I'm just guessing that it's a big higher output, a bit more clean or "clear" or whatever impossible descriptive words people use.

Really, the only way I can tell is to maybe tomorrow make a recording of a solo piece and Mic the amplifier , shove it on YouTube.

Not nearly as difficult as it looked anyway. ;)

Note: The trick for me as far as getting the pickup height more correct was to take it apart, get rid of the springs and reattach it. That made it a near-perfect height for my touch and ears. I would never lower the thing so the springs are no issue.

Note II: The reason the pole pieces don't "appear" under the strings is only because I quickly snapped a phone photo at some weird angle, so nothing looks straight. It is all perfect as far as placement goes.

StixDweller · #15 10-18-2014, 11:26 AM

I had a floating Bartolini J5n which had nice tone but lacked frequency range that I was seeking, and also it didn't have the dynamics either.
Currently use Kent Armstrong USA on my Campellone which is main gigging axe. Great tone, dynamics and color. Similar to Johnny Smith in my opinion. The imported Kent Armstrongs are not so good soundwise. Slimbuckers are good that they fit so many low-bridge archtops but that's the only thing good about them.
I also have a Kent Armstrong "Rocker" pickup made overseas. Tried once and felt the cheap $10 Chinese pups sound just as bad. I cant get rid of this nice looking gold humbucker for $35. Don't buy it if you see my listing on ebay - unless you are putting it through a ton of electrical garbage then the output doesn't really matter.