Help Me Grade This Macassar Ebony & Indian Rosewood

Vee_Voe · #1 05-26-2016, 07:17 AM

Im just curious what some of the luthiers here think about this set of East Indian Rosewood. How woukd you grade it? Which would you use as a back/side set for a 12 fret dreadnought?

Macassar Ebony

Indian Rosewood

dekutree64 · #2 05-26-2016, 07:25 AM

Looks like AAA to me. Love the purple color

EDIT: That was about the rosewood. I don't know what grade to give that ebony. It's beautiful of course, but I wouldn't use it myself because of humidity trouble. But most tonewood dealers don't seem to care about that, so it might get a high grade anyway.

lizzard · #3 05-26-2016, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dekutree64

Looks like AAA to me. Love the purple color

Me too. Could be straighter and tighter but Nice anyway!

Bruce Sexauer · #4 05-26-2016, 10:18 AM

The ebony is slab sawn with relevant run out toward one end. I would not choose to build with it.

The Indian is rift sawn IMO, though making such a judgement froM a photo has its risks. It is probably not within ten degrees of quarter anywhere, and appears to approach absolute flat sawn within a couple of inches were it that much wider. Clearly sawn for yield rather than quarter and fiber alignment, it is a far cry from what I call AAA. Still, one might build with it in expectation of success. I Rate it low AA.

I hope you really wanted to know.

Howard Klepper · #5 05-26-2016, 10:58 AM

Ebony set B--i.e., not acceptable

EIR set AA--decent factory grade

ObiWanSymbian · #6 05-26-2016, 12:31 PM

Can one really judge tone wood's properties without tapping it first?

doogypep · #7 05-26-2016, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

The ebony is slab sawn with relevant run out toward one end. I would not choose to build with it.

The Indian is rift sawn IMO, though making such a judgement froM a photo has its risks. It is probably not within ten degrees of quarter anywhere, and appears to approach absolute flat sawn within a couple of inches were it that much wider. Clearly sawn for yield rather than quarter and fiber alignment, it is a far cry from what I call AAA. Still, one might build with it in expectation of success. I Rate it low AA.

I hope you really wanted to know.

I'm not a luthier but for me. this wood can make a good , very good or best gutar. so why not we make guitar from this wood? Only the quarter sawn can make a good guitar? I'm sure the real luthier known how to figure all problems from the non 100% quater sawn wood.

How leicester city win the trophy, why not MAN-U or Chelsea or Man city or the team with may stars?

dekutree64 · #8 05-26-2016, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doogypep

I'm not a luthier but for me. this wood can make a good , very good or best gutar. so why not we make guitar from this wood? Only the quarter sawn can make a good guitar? I'm sure the real luthier known how to figure all problems from the non 100% quater sawn wood.

How leicester city win the trophy, why not MAN-U or Chelsea or Man city or the team with may stars?

Sure it'll make a good guitar at first. The problem is that it will be very sensitive to humidity changes, and it's a lot of effort to keep a guitar perfectly humidified at all times. Ebony has exceptionally high humidity expansion, and at the same time is brittle. The worst possible wood to use flatsawn.

Bruce Sexauer · #9 05-26-2016, 04:03 PM

Also, the ebony has a high percentage of sap wood. I have often seen ebony sapwood which has less than half the integrity of the adjoining heartwood, and it sometimes separates cleanly right on the margin between them.

Yet more; the ebony is only flat in the middle, the rest is rift, or oblique to the rings, and so the inevitable humidity driven expansion/contraction will cause unequal movement which means the shape will distort, or at best harbor asymmetric stresses which are the enemy of tone, which is the product of integrity and relaxation. If that seems off the wall, consider you own guitar playing (or anybody elses) as a supporting example.

dosland · #10 05-26-2016, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doogypep

I'm not a luthier but for me. this wood can make a good , very good or best gutar. so why not we make guitar from this wood? Only the quarter sawn can make a good guitar? I'm sure the real luthier known how to figure all problems from the non 100% quater sawn wood.

How leicester city win the trophy, why not MAN-U or Chelsea or Man city or the team with may stars?

FYI, of the people who have replied thus far, Bruce Sexauer and Howard Klepper (at least) are among the most highly-regarded luthiers around. "Real luthiers," in your words.

Vee_Voe · #11 05-26-2016, 04:27 PM

Thank you everyone, these are from a wood pile of a luthier from Vietnam. I'm having him build me a 00 out of sitka/ziricote. I was considering having a second one made if the 00 turns out good. These are a couple sets he sent me photos of to give me an idea of what he has.

This is the set of ziricote I chose for the 00, hopefully I didn't make a mistake

Bruce Sexauer · #12 05-26-2016, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ObiWanSymbian

Can one really judge tone wood's properties without tapping it first?

If there are several parameters, any one of which is critical, then the hidden parameters are of no consequence if the failure is detected in the visible ones.

Don't get me started on the importance of "tapping", which is misunderstood by nearly everyone IMO.

LouieAtienza · #13 05-26-2016, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doogypep

I'm not a luthier but for me. this wood can make a good , very good or best gutar. so why not we make guitar from this wood? Only the quarter sawn can make a good guitar? I'm sure the real luthier known how to figure all problems from the non 100% quater sawn wood.

How leicester city win the trophy, why not MAN-U or Chelsea or Man city or the team with may stars?

Well, no one would stop you or anyone from using these woods; these are two highly regarded luthiers who prefer not to use them. Does not mean that they or someone else can make a good guitar out of it.

Looking how that EIR was cut, that's one heluva table saw...

Cocobolo Kid · #14 05-26-2016, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

If there are several parameters, any one of which is critical, then the hidden parameters are of no consequence if the failure is detected in the visible ones.

Don't get me started on the importance of "tapping", which is misunderstood by nearly everyone IMO.

I really enjoy reading all your thought out responses Bruce, especially given how much you know about guitar building. With that said, now I really want to know what you think about "tapping" and its importance.

lizzard · #15 05-27-2016, 08:04 AM

I hope you land a wonderful guitar regarless....