Taylor expression system vs system 2

[hat]

A question for the Taylor guys - when did the change from the original expression system to the new system 2 happen? without opening a can of worms, what are your thoughts on which is the better system? just comparing them, I would think the original system would be much better ( IF it does what they say it does).

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by hat

A question for the Taylor guys - when did the change from the original expression system to the new system 2 happen? without opening a can of worms, what are your thoughts on which is the better system? just comparing them, I would think the original system would be much better ( IF it does what they say it does).

I would post this in the amplification section, you will probably get more replies there. With that said, I believe the ES2 came out around the end of 2013, with the introduction of the improved 800 series. It seemed to be around early 2014 when people really started to get a chance to test the ES2. Over the last 6-8 months, Taylor has started to switch most of their models over to the new system.

There are fans of both systems. I personally hated the original ES as it sounded metallic and nothing like an acoustic guitar. The thing is, the original ES went through three updates so the latest was a big improvement over the original version that I had. The ES2 is more natural but it lacks a bit of the bite of the original system. If Taylor can find a way to make the ES2 sound a bit more consistent from guitar to guitar and possibly add another source for some needed high end, then it would be a killer pickup.

[ogradyboy]

I had the original ES in my Taylor 712ce (now up for grabs on Reverb). They are known (by Taylor) to sometimes fail - as mine did after several years. If you send it back to Taylor they will install the new ES2 upgrade as they did for me a few months ago. It was about a 4-5 week turnaround and the cost was $300 + shipping to them (they returned it at their cost). There is a modification at the endpin for a 9V battery slot (previous was AA).

As far as amplifying the sound goes I guess it's subjective. To my "nonprofessional ears" it sounded fine. It was louder than if it was unplugged. Hope this helps.


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[ntotoro]

The change came with the revamped 800's and the Fall 2013 LTD's.

It's tough to say which is better. I've never been a huge fan of factory-installed electronics. I do prefer the sound of the ES2, even though I feel the last generation of the original ES sounded the best of that line and was more feedback-resistant in a band situation.

Nick

[j3ffr0]

I'm an ES fan. Taylor started rolling out ES2 in 2013 or 2014 I think with the new Andy Powers 814s. It has slowly trickled in throughout the rest of the product line (starting at the top)

I think the ES1v3 sounds the best for fingerstyle, and ES2 is probably better for strumming. Both sound pretty good at everything, and I favor them over piezos.

[dr461]

I like both the ES and the ES2. Really, there is not a huge difference between the two in terms of sound. I find the need to use external processing for either one, so no real difference to my ear. Taylor's guitars sound equally good unplugged versus plugged in, so I have been happy using either. Both of my Taylors have the ES 1, but I have played the ES2 often in various situations.

[SpruceTop]

I've had at least a 1/2-dozen Taylors with the old magnetic Expression System and I've now had 5 (4 currently owned) with the new ES2 (Expression System 2). Although the old Expression System held a quirky kind of charm for me, I enjoy the new ES2 much more because it amplifies my Taylors with a natural-sounding acoustic tone compared to the noticeably electric-guitar-like tone of the old Expression System. So, I like the ES2 better!

[pieterh]

I like the ES2 very much as well. I've been struggling for 10 years to like first the ES1.1 then the ES1.3 when I upgraded. Neither sounds like an acoustic guitar only louder (Taylor's initial claim!) but rather had a very electric guitar character, especially when played up the neck (which I do a lot). Almost certainly the placement of the neck sensor (under the end of the fingerboard) is the reason for this and why it is so hard to eq out those excessive mids. The body sensor(s) didn't seem to add enough acoustic resonance to compensate.

By contrast the ES2 sounds a lot more natural, and even direct on a recording sounds very realistic. At a rehearsal at the weekend I ran it through a Radial stage bug direct to the mixer, no preamp or eq in between. A little low cut at the mixer and that was it - and it sounded great!

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by pieterh

I like the ES2 very much as well. I've been struggling for 10 years to like first the ES1.1 then the ES1.3 when I upgraded. Neither sounds like an acoustic guitar only louder (Taylor's initial claim!) but rather had a very electric guitar character, especially when played up the neck (which I do a lot). Almost certainly the placement of the neck sensor (under the end of the fingerboard) is the reason for this and why it is so hard to eq out those excessive mids. The body sensor(s) didn't seem to add enough acoustic resonance to compensate.

By contrast the ES2 sounds a lot more natural, and even direct on a recording sounds very realistic. At a rehearsal at the weekend I ran it through a Radial stage bug direct to the mixer, no preamp or eq in between. A little low cut at the mixer and that was it - and it sounded great!

That's what I found as well. The more I played up the neck, the more electric my tone became. I had friends who were not musicians, ask me why my acoustic sounded so weird/electric. That to me is a massive indication that a pickup is not right. The ES2 is a huge improvement, but I do wish that Taylor would add a second source to capture some highs.

[Br1ck]

I'm not a Taylor guy, but a friend has an ES1, and I've always thought it sounded good if not great. I'm not a believer in factory systems because electronics will always have a rapid improvement rate, and they will not be optimal ten years down the line.

[Cochese]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

That's what I found as well. The more I played up the neck, the more electric my tone became. I had friends who were not musicians, ask me why my acoustic sounded so weird/electric. That to me is a massive indication that a pickup is not right. The ES2 is a huge improvement, but I do wish that Taylor would add a second source to capture some highs.

What system are you playing the ES2 through? I found there is a lot of high end. You get all those finger squeaks and fret noise etc. Like the hyped sound of a condenser mic. Maybe you mean lower midrange?

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Cochese

What system are you playing the ES2 through? I found there is a lot of high end. You get all those finger squeaks and fret noise etc. Like the hyped sound of a condenser mic. Maybe you mean lower midrange?

It definitely picks up finger squeaks and fret noise, but I don't associate those with high end frequencies. It's true that the more treble present, the more these things will come through the speaker, but the high end isn't causing them. I just find the ES2 has a very SBT tone to it. It's warm and full but can lack that biting clarity. I have played it through a variety of amps (AER, Fishman etc) as well as a full PA (TM16 mixer + 2 k12 speakers).

[Vancebo]

Can't add too much to what has already been said. I agree that it is more naturally acoustic sounding, but it is inconsistent from guitar to guitar. Played some that were simply stellar and others that were meh. I would suggest plugging in before buying.

[nhbiker1961]

I recently upgraded 2 taylors to the ES2 system. I found the bodyrez pedal softens the piezo pickup.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by nhbiker1961

I recently upgraded 2 taylors to the ES2 system. I found the bodyrez pedal softens the piezo pickup.

Did you have to ship the guitars to Taylor?