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  #1  
Old 12-12-2017, 05:18 AM
JazzyJ JazzyJ is offline
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Default Upgrade speaker to Neodymium?

Hi all, I've got a Genz Benz Shen Jr (10" 35w 4 Ohms) and a Genz Benz Shen 100 (12" 70w @ 8 Ohms).

Been researching 'upgrading' the speakers to Neodymium in order to benefit from a lighter weight.

Seems that I would loose possibly 2.5kg with the 10" in the Shen Jr, and at least that (or more) depending on the exisiting weight of the 12" in the Shen 100.

The two speakers I've been looking at are:
FaitalPRO 12PR300 8ohm 12" 300watt PA Speaker, 5.3lbs, 2.4kg - for the Shen 100

and
FaitalPRO 10PR300 4ohm 10" 300watt PA Speaker, 4.62lbs, 2.1kg - for the Shen Jr.

Any opinions? How much (if at all) will this affect the sound? And, the Wattages for these two speakers are way more than is necessary (300watt) but can't find lower wattage for Neo speakers?.

Would value your opinions!

Thanks

Last edited by JazzyJ; 12-13-2017 at 12:40 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-12-2017, 08:49 PM
agedhorse agedhorse is offline
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Will most certainly change the sound (a lot).
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  #3  
Old 12-12-2017, 11:48 PM
TNO TNO is offline
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Those speakers are woofers...I wonder if the stock speakers are full range?
The other thing to consider is relative efficiency. If the replacement speakers are less efficient you could lose a lot of volume and the balance with the tweeter might be off.
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  #4  
Old 12-13-2017, 01:43 AM
Nama Ensou Nama Ensou is offline
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Now is definitely a better time to be having this conversation than it was a few years ago, as there are both more options and also a more advanced understanding of how neodymium affects the tonality of a speaker. As a beneficial result there are now less negative reports coming in regards to tonal response and I've been seeing ever more positive results mentioned on one of the other forums when it comes to guitar amps and various neo options.

I've actually been considering trying one in my Eon One to beef up the thickness and bottom end, with the side benefit of less weight at the end of the night. Looking forward to see if there are any meaningful posts from the speaker experts.
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  #5  
Old 12-13-2017, 02:51 AM
JazzyJ JazzyJ is offline
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Default Some later Genz Benz amps had Neo speakers

Some of the later Genz Benz amps used Neodymium speakers

The Shen ProLT has a Neodymium 300 watt 12" Loudspeaker and the SHEN-CPK-10T uses a Neodymium 10” speaker (8 ohm as opposed to a 4 ohms speaker that my Shen Jr uses ).

What make and model of speakers do they use?

Perhaps the 12" that the Shen ProLT used would be great in a Shen 100?
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  #6  
Old 12-13-2017, 09:06 AM
agedhorse agedhorse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyJ View Post
Some of the later Genz Benz amps used Neodymium speakers

The Shen ProLT has a Neodymium 300 watt 12" Loudspeaker and the SHEN-CPK-10T uses a Neodymium 10” speaker (8 ohm as opposed to a 4 ohms speaker that my Shen Jr uses ).

What make and model of speakers do they use?

Perhaps the 12" that the Shen ProLT used would be great in a Shen 100?
The crossovers and HF drivers are different, the enclosures and porting are different (especially the Compak 300) and the voicing of the cabinets themselves are different.
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  #7  
Old 12-13-2017, 12:52 PM
JazzyJ JazzyJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agedhorse View Post
The crossovers and HF drivers are different, the enclosures and porting are different (especially the Compak 300) and the voicing of the cabinets themselves are different.
I don't know whether the HF drivers are different as the Shen ProLT spec states that it uses a: 'Compression Bullet Tweeter with Level Control' - which is exactly what the spec says for my Shen 100. Saying that, the Compak 300 spec states that it uses a 'soft dome tweeter'.

So, the Shen ProLT uses a 12" Neo speaker and a Compression Bullet Tweeter with Level Control and my Shen 100 uses a 12" speaker (not Neo) and a Compression Bullet Tweeter with Level Control.

I'm still curious to know what neo driver the Shen ProLT uses and how that would sound in my Shen 100......
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Old 12-13-2017, 01:06 PM
agedhorse agedhorse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyJ View Post
I don't know whether the HF drivers are different as the Shen ProLT spec states that it uses a: 'Compression Bullet Tweeter with Level Control' - which is exactly what the spec says for my Shen 100. Saying that, the Compak 300 spec states that it uses a 'soft dome tweeter'.

So, the Shen ProLT uses a 12" Neo speaker and a Compression Bullet Tweeter with Level Control and my Shen 100 uses a 12" speaker (not Neo) and a Compression Bullet Tweeter with Level Control.

I'm still curious to know what neo driver the Shen ProLT uses and how that would sound in my Shen 100......
The Pro LT uses a custom Eminence driver with a much toned down mid voicing. All of the models you listed use different tweeters and crossovers. You would simply be wild guessing by trying to extrapolate technical information from the simple specs. There was a lot of engineering that was done to make your amp work the way it does.

If you are not happy with the performance or weight, you would probably be better off selling them and buying something that fits your current needs better.

Last edited by Kerbie; 07-06-2018 at 05:13 AM. Reason: Removed masked profanity
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  #9  
Old 12-14-2017, 04:42 PM
JazzyJ JazzyJ is offline
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Thanks for all of your thoughts. Just to close this post, one more question.

If a kid suick a pen through the grill and into the speaker in my Shen Jr or Shen 100 and the speaker was not repairable and had to be replaced, then what speaker would replace it (make model etc.):

1) Shen Jr - Normal replacement =

and Neo replacement =

2) Shen 100 - Normal replacement =

and Neo replacement =

Thanks and over and out.......
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  #10  
Old 12-14-2017, 04:54 PM
agedhorse agedhorse is offline
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I would recommend the original speakers, that way there's no question that it performs the same as intended. Since I designed both of these amps, perhaps my insight into this might be more accurate than other suggestions.

I do have some of the original speakers here in stock too.

IF you wanted the amp to sound different, then t here are other options. If you wanted the amp to sound more like an Acoustic Pro, then that driver and crossover might be a better choice. If you wanted it to sound more like a 150LT, then that speaker plus maybe the crossover might be ok. I can't endorse these choices because i haven't tried them, but I KNOW they will sound significantly different than the original drivers.
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  #11  
Old 12-15-2017, 03:58 AM
JazzyJ JazzyJ is offline
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Thanks for the advice!
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  #12  
Old 12-15-2017, 03:15 PM
JazzyJ JazzyJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agedhorse View Post
I would recommend the original speakers, that way there's no question that it performs the same as intended. Since I designed both of these amps, perhaps my insight into this might be more accurate than other suggestions.
Just to say, thank you for your responses and thank you for some amazing amps. My two GB Shen amps are my pride and joy and stun everyone who hears them.

I apologise that my posts have been shortsighted, I appreciate now, the complexity of why the GB stuff sounds so good (I have a contour 500 15" also), and that it's not so simple as to just swap a speaker to lose some weight but maintain the same sound.

The Genz Benz acoustic amps are for me head and shoulders above everything else I have heard and I await the day that a a Compak 10" or 8" comes up on Ebay UK as this is my Holy Grail of acoustic amps.

Thank you for all you've contributed to the the acoustic amp market and all the best for the future.
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Old 12-15-2017, 05:27 PM
agedhorse agedhorse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyJ View Post
Just to say, thank you for your responses and thank you for some amazing amps. My two GB Shen amps are my pride and joy and stun everyone who hears them.

I apologise that my posts have been shortsighted, I appreciate now, the complexity of why the GB stuff sounds so good (I have a contour 500 15" also), and that it's not so simple as to just swap a speaker to lose some weight but maintain the same sound.

The Genz Benz acoustic amps are for me head and shoulders above everything else I have heard and I await the day that a a Compak 10" or 8" comes up on Ebay UK as this is my Holy Grail of acoustic amps.

Thank you for all you've contributed to the the acoustic amp market and all the best for the future.
You are welcome. A lot of thought goes into any amp as a whole, not just the parts but the whole package.

The Compak 300's are still popular here, when they sell used they are bought almost immediately and for good money too. When you see one, don't wait. I prefer the 10" version all around, but the 8" is pretty potent for such a small amp.
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  #14  
Old 07-06-2018, 03:30 AM
JazzyJ JazzyJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyJ View Post

Seems that I would loose possibly 2.5kg with the 10" in the Shen Jr
I've weighed the speaker it has inside (GBE 1020-4 / 60 watts 4 Ohm) and it's less than 1.5 kg!!

It's the cabinet that makes the Shen Jnr heavy not the speaker!

Case closed.........
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  #15  
Old 07-06-2018, 06:28 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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I did this exact experiment almost 10 years ago using a light weight neo speaker I bought online (and don't recall the brand/model). As long as you've got the ability to return the speaker, I see it as a fun experiment. I ended up returning the speaker I bought not because it sounded bad, but because I decided the 150LT was not worth that investment and bought a PA.
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